THE IMPERFECT SHOW NOTES

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These show notes come via the Otter.ai service. The transcription is imperfect. But hopefully, it’s close enough – even with the errors – to give those who aren’t able or inclined to learn from audio interviews a way to participate.

Fran Keogh  00:00

And then I went to my husband said, I want to have an alpaca farm. We’ve got 30 acres can we use? And he said, we’ll go put together a business model, a business plan, and we can talk about it. So I actually went back to the woman that I was working with and said, Tell you what, can I earn my first alpaca? I’ll work for you so many hours. And when you give me one of your alpacas, and she said, Yes, I’ll give you a male of course, because that usually not worth nearly as much as the breeding females. And that’s how I got my first job packet.

Achim Nowak  00:29

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your FOURTH ACT? I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected FOURTH ACTS. Listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening on. Let’s get started.  I am so happy to welcome friend Keogh to the MY FOURTH AT podcast. Fran has lived and is living a gorgeously eclectic life. This mother and grandmother. Now 70 years young has been a radio host, a voice over talent and use anchor, an alpaca farmer, a yoga teacher, a health coach, and business and life coach. Fran has fearlessly jumped into unexpected opportunities that presented themselves to her. She’s passionate about creating lives that are less stressed, and trusting our elder wisdom. And Fran loves to laugh. So welcome, friend.

Fran Keogh  01:46

I do indeed Hakim and in there is that little piece about being a laughter yoga teacher, which was how I got started with yoga. And yeah, it’s wonderful laughter is so important. So thank you.

Achim Nowak  01:58

It is and I’m glad that the introduction made you laugh. So we’re off to a great start, before we get to your wonderfully eclectic life, and I love having you as a guest because my journey is equally nonlinear. And there’s a beauty in that. When you were a young girl, and our listeners can hear that you were not born in the United States, you have a slight and delightful accent. Who did you think you want it to be when you were growing up?

Fran Keogh  02:25

theater actress?

Achim Nowak  02:29

You said that without hesitation?

Fran Keogh  02:31

Yeah, it’s for sure. It was my passion for quite a long time. And a dancer, but mostly theater actress? Yeah.

Achim Nowak  02:41

Did you study did you take acting classes? To what degree did you apply yourself to? To explore that part of you.

Fran Keogh  02:49

I did do some acting classes when I was at high school. And I was in a lot of school plays. My parents said to me, if you want to go into theater, we will pay for you to go to the Rose, Buford School of Drama. And I can remember that. It’s incredible. If you get a skill first because you’re going to spend a lot of time not being able to, you know, make a living, which I think was good wisdom. And I went to the secretary I went to a technical college and got a one year intensive secretarial course. And in those days, we did shorthand and typing. So that was like a whole new language. What happened after that is I got my first job with the head of arts features for BBC television in London, which was quite a coup. For my first job. I was what maybe 80 I’m not quite sure happened. What happened to the Rose Bruford School of Drama, though, somehow it didn’t.

Achim Nowak  03:48

Well, I have to chuckle but in a sort of a mixed way about the common good parents made, which is almost the classic comment that artists get, you know, which is Oh, yeah, pursue your passion, but become an accountant. In the meantime, you know, and there’s nothing wrong with being an accountant unless you don’t want to be one. Right. So that was interesting that you received that. And I think so many theater people get that, before we get to your life now. I am struck by the diversity of things you’ve done. And in the spirit of exasperation of life, and the spirit of also what any while listeners might be exploring, I’m going to just cherry pick if you and just ask, how did that fall into your lap? And what did it take for you Fran to say, Heck, yeah, I want to do this. So one thing that struck me is yet you worked with a public television station in Cincinnati and you were a development director and news anchor, and I would imagine that you’re, you’re training as an actress and your beautiful voice helped. But how does one suddenly Become a development director for the station. And how does one suddenly become a news anchor when your resume? Say that?

Fran Keogh  05:08

I know it’s really bizarre in a way, because actually, I’m sorry, I have to correct you on one thing. It was Public Radio, Public Radio, I’m sorry. And that’s fine. And it was a very strong public radio station in Cincinnati, I actually went into radio sales, I was working for a rock station in radio sales for a year selling air basically selling advertising. And I hated it. I loved the first couple of months. And then I really didn’t like it. I just felt a lot of it was unethical. But somebody I had met, worked with WV xu and said, You know, I know they could use somebody to sell some little packages for underwriting around the Christmas for Christmas, you know? And I said, Oh, okay, this might be a good entree into that the station. So I took it on. And I just sold them in a week, because I was asking people to spend $200, as opposed to 2000. And it was so easy to do. Well, the station manager who is remarkable person, and quite the maverick in the public radio world, immediately took notice and said, Oh, I want her in here. And I said, I would really that’s fine sales, okay, but I really want to be on air. So he said, How about we create a position for you? How about you do some assistant fundraising, as you know, Assistant development director, and we’ll give you the afternoon, little news news edition, you know, to do and we’ll train you how to do it. And I said, sounds great to me. Then not long after that, sadly, the development director actually died a year or so later. And I stepped into the role. That’s how I, and that’s been the story of many things that I’ve done. I’ve sort of seen opportunities and been able to weave it in. And I think the biggest part of that is because I’ve not been afraid to I just figured I’ll do it. I’ll figure it out.

Achim Nowak  07:06

What strikes me about your story, which is a beautiful story, but you asked for it. You had the will, if I can use a New York phrase, you had the chutzpah to show up early on say, No, I want to be on air. You know, you didn’t wait for them to come to you. That’s your part in it. Right.

Fran Keogh  07:23

You hit on it. Thank you for that. Yes. You saw through that. And I would say that’s been the trajectory of many in my life and the many things I’ve done.

Achim Nowak  07:33

Yeah. When you mentioned that you are fearless. Because you hadn’t ever been a news anchor before. So this is the part where it takes a certain gall to say, you know, yeah, I know you want me to sell but I really want to be an on air person, right? Do you have a sense of where that fearless part of you comes from? Is that just your DNA? Or was that encouraged? When you were young? That part of you that says, let me just ask for what I want.

Fran Keogh  07:58

He know him? I don’t know. Yeah, I’m not sure where that comes from. And I’d like to sort of spend more time on another occasion thinking about that. I think some of it may be just DNA. And What’s odd about it, too, is that I like confidence. I’d like to confidence a lot in certain areas of my life growing up. And I was always looking, you know, conditional love the sorts of things that we often experience. I mean, I had a very solid middle class, nice English upbringing, and my parents were good parents. And you know, there was some dysfunction. But I don’t know a family that doesn’t have some dysfunction. But essentially, it was a pretty solid upbringing. Had that got to do with it. I don’t know. It comes from somewhere. So there are some things I’m fearless about and other things that I need a little more courage with. Yes.

Achim Nowak  08:50

Can we talk about the alpaca farm? Because that sounds esoteric to me. And again, how does somebody who I surmising didn’t know a heck of a lot about alpaca or anything like that? Can you describe to us what that was? I understand your own did in like, how did that manifest in your life?

Fran Keogh  09:12

Oh, that was a true manifestation I like to refer to refer to it as my perimenopausal affair. Because I literally fell in love. We were visiting some relatives up north in Ohio, and they had an alpaca farm down the street. And that was the first time I’d ever met them. And I was completely smitten. I just fell in love with these animals. But I also could see the potential with a fiber and I just love the idea because I’ve always been a knitter, you know, crafts, you know, that type of thing. And I just my creative juices started flowing. I did some research again, I found out if there was an alpaca farm near us, and discovered one and went to visit her and then I said to her, you know, Can I work with you? Can I help you out? Because she had a full time job as well, just to learn? And she said, Yes, of course, I’d love to help. So I went over and I’d be raking, you know, in the, in the fields and taking care of the animals, feeding them, that sort of thing. And actually, I was in her field, raking alpaca poop, the very day after 911 Yeah. I mean, it was just a strange time it was. And I remember that distinctly. And then I went to my husband said, I want to have an alpaca farm. We’ve got 30 acres can we use? And he said, we’ll go put together a business model, a business plan, and we can talk about it. So I actually went back to the woman that I was working with and said, Tell you what, can I earn my first alpaca? I’ll work for you so many hours. And when you give me one of your alpacas, and she said, Yes, I’ll give you a male, of course, because it usually not worth nearly as much as the breeding females. And that’s how I got my first packet. And it went from there. And then we invested a little money and I bought some and then I talked to other people and I had borders. At one point, I had 24 alpacas on the farm. The most of those were not mine, took care of birthing babies. You know, general husbandry learned how to administer shots, learned how to market and sell, I gave alpaca talks at the local libraries, and I’d take a longer Baby Alpaca with me. And it was extraordinary. I mean, I really wasn’t one woman show. But I have to say that the support of my husband and my children went a long way with that, of course,

Achim Nowak  11:35

what strikes me about the story again, and in my mind, I’m linking it to you becoming a news anchor is that you? You open the door, and you found your way in? And you are not afraid to ask, which is powerful. You asked for what you wanted. In both situations. It was granted, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Now what I’m really curious about says, I know nothing about the alpaca world, I’m getting a little glimpse now. But what did you Fran learn about yourself? When you suddenly were the one woman show who had an alpaca farm and you’re doing? Like, what, how did you grow as a human? What you did? Did you discover?

Fran Keogh  12:18

Well, I think I began to realize more and more that I was a passionate learner, I love to learn about new things. I learned a lot of different skills that I didn’t know I, you know, again, I just figured it out. I also learned that I can do too much, because I did have a bit of a crisis, in the middle of it all, a physical break down and ended up in hospital for 11 days. And I, I realized that, you know, I can also take on too much. And when I do too much I become scattered, you know. But one of the things that I realized, afterwards, after after seven years, when we decided it was time, you know, I decided I’d done enough was that I was in my heart trying to build community. I want a community and I did create a community. We one day there was an article in the business Inquirer. In the business section of the Cincinnati Enquirer about the farm and my cottage industry with the fiber and what I was doing, that we were going to have a farm day, and the phone didn’t stop ringing people. We had several 100 people come out to the farm that day. And wow, I created this isn’t the people coming to see these animals? It was it was a lot about community.

Achim Nowak  13:44

What strikes me as I consider myself an entrepreneur, is that there is such a power in realizing that I created this, because part of that power is if I can create this, I can also create other things in the future because it’s the same energy and it manifests in a different way. Yeah. Would you agree with that?

Fran Keogh  14:07

Absolutely. Yes.

Achim Nowak  14:10

You have done so many cool things. I want to just touch on one more before we get to today. You already mentioned that you were hatha yoga teacher. You talked about the laughter part of Hatha Yoga, which I think of it as a a wonderful subset of yoga. But if I got this right, you did this for quite a long time with a cancer support group. Would you just talk a little bit about this experience where laughter and Hatha Yoga mean to you?

Fran Keogh  14:41

Yes. Well, first of all, I bumped into laughter yoga, which is not really yoga in our normal concept of it. And I just

Achim Nowak  14:50

want I just want to stop you for a moment because I would love for our list to remember the phrase bumped into her because we all bumped into things. Oh, this is good. You tend to bump into things and run with a bump. So

Fran Keogh  15:04

not all of them.

Achim Nowak  15:06

Just wanted to talk to you because that take a chimpanzee,

Fran Keogh  15:10

there was a man giving a class of laughter yoga at our gym that we belong to. And I fell in love with it. This is This is wonderful, I love this stuff, because I love laughing uncontrollably. And when that, which is what it is, it’s really a physical exercise in that sense. And you have to fake it till you make it. So you just get the juices flowing as it were. And he gave us a he was, you know, teaching a class. And so I got my yoga teacher certification. It was like a weekend class. And then after that, I have met another teacher, wonderful Indian man who was a yoga teacher. And he was giving class. So I got my certification, 200 hours yoga teacher certification. And as I qualified for that, my it was just around the time my mother died. And I met a woman who his mother had also died of ovarian cancer. And she was teaching at the cancer support community volunteering once or twice a week Yoga, you know, for the patients and their caregivers. And so she introduced me to them, and then she left you went to Florida, so I stepped into her role. And then they created a paid position. So I was teaching one just once a week, but I also gave some additional classes actually gave some cooking classes, healthy cooking classes, and I did some yet laughter yoga sessions with them. And I also gave a laughter yoga, a couple of laughter yoga sessions, and my daughter’s high school. I had about 50 Girls rolling around the stage, which is great fun. So, yes, I worked with the cancer, the cancer support community for about seven years, I think I was teaching actually up until COVID hit and they had to close the facility down. And it was about that time I was deciding it was time to maybe step back a little bit from that, because I was really being very involved in my my coaching at that point in a whole nother iteration of my life. Right,

Achim Nowak  17:15

yeah. You talked about how much you love laughter. And you’ve been a teacher has facilitated that. What else does yoga or Hatha Yoga mean to you personally into your wellness and to how you feel about yourself.

Fran Keogh  17:33

Physically, of course, it’s great form of stretching and flexibility. And especially as we get older, and we need that more and more. But there’s a whole mental component. And in some ways, it’s spiritual, but a mental component of it’s really helped me to calm and I do a little meditation practice most days. And it may be just 10 minutes, but infuse that into my coaching. One of the reasons that some people have gravitated towards me my coaching is because of that background, because they love the idea of the mindfulness and the meditation and that sense of groundedness. And it’s very interesting. I came I just this came into my mind. When I was working with Walt the first time I met him, and he was my teacher for Walters world has been a guest on your show, who’s my teacher and mentor. He looked at me and he said, you know, just out of the blue, he said, you’re very, you seem very calm, which I think is hilarious, because my parents ever heard somebody say that about me. And I paraphrase, I’m not sure it was something to that effect. They’d say, this can’t be the same girl, you know. So I really think it’s infused my life at a deeper level.

Achim Nowak  18:57

Word from your sponsor. That’s me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast www.my Fourth active.com, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth acts. Please check it out. And now back to the conversation. I’d like to take the conversation to friend’s life now. And what matters to you and what’s emerging for you and I want to preface it by saying guests end up on my shows in different ways. I’m talking to Fran because Fran just shamelessly like that you heard the other sort of just send me a message saying I like your podcast and I think that’d be a great guest you know, and and we have yes you you did I mean, you said that maybe I’m fly that you invited yourself and in which connects perfectly to everything else you’ve told us about yourself so far. And you know, we know each other through a wonderful business coach, entrepreneur, Walt Hampton. So we had that social connection. But you also immediately said, you know, I’m 70 years old, I’m a mother and a grandmother. And I’m in my fourth act, I think what I’m going through in life is perfect for the stuff that you’re talking about your podcast. And I immediately felt Of course, Fran would be a perfect guest. How do you and I applaud you for claiming your age, how to use a seven year old woman, mother and grandmother, on a daily, weekly, monthly basis, decide what to do, what not to do, what you what to spend your time on, and what not to spend your timer.

Fran Keogh  20:57

That’s that is, it sounds like a cliche, but that is an interesting question. And I have had some, I have had some reflection on that. And it’s been a little bit challenging at times. Because having raised four children over a long period of time. And I’ve asked myself, am I supposed to be this grandmother? Who spends all her free time? With her grandchildren? Yeah, because there are plenty of women and and I applaud them for that. That becomes their life. Yeah. But it’s not mine. They are a part of my life and an incredibly important part of my life. And I love them so much. And my life is richer for them. Obviously, I’m talking as a grant, grandparent, but also my kids now. And one of the things I always did him when I work as a mother, I was a stay at home mom, but I always had maintained outside interests. Yeah. And especially as the mother of three girls, I wanted it to be clear that I was not going to be a mother, who when their children grew up and took off, was standing there completely lost, saying, What do I do with myself like now? Who am I? Yeah. And I think especially for women, that’s really important, because as a child, a girl child of the early 50s. I mean, that’s kind of what you did. You got married and had kids. Right, right. That’s right. So I’m living my career, more of my career. Now, in some ways, as I’m a lot older, I’m doing. I’m doing the reverse a

Achim Nowak  22:38

little bit. One way to say it,

Fran Keogh  22:42

oh, thank you. But I do sometimes feel a little guilty, that I don’t spend more time that I’m not this grandmother that this image that we often have as a grandmother. My mother was neither my mother was, was great. Actually, my father was probably more of a grandparent in some ways, the traditional grandpa, goofy and fun and, you know, so yeah, it’s an interesting question, and one that I have battled with a little bit. But in the end, I have to be true to myself. And you know, when I’ve talked about it with my children, they all get it. They understand. And I think they, I hope they appreciate me more for being my own person.

Achim Nowak  23:25

Now I know we you also to my our fellow who has been a guest on my show, Chip Conley, who was often who writes about the wisdom of the elder and you just shamelessly claimed your grandmotherhood in this conversation. And I know you, among many other things also work as a coach for other people. You support them and their wellness and living in a less stressed lives. How does the wisdom that you have as a 70 year old woman, mother or grandmother impact how you are of service to others?

Fran Keogh  24:07

Can I tell a short story? Of course

Achim Nowak  24:09

you can.

Fran Keogh  24:10

It’s not actually answering your question, but it doesn’t matter. Your time. It’s it’s a segue perhaps, in my bit, my mid 60s, so it’s not very long ago. I repelled down to 350 foot building in Cincinnati.

Achim Nowak  24:27

What does that mean? repelled?

Fran Keogh  24:30

Basically, climb you repel, you have ropes, don’t go down the hole of the outside of the building. I’ve never rappelled in my life before. I don’t know. People have said How on earth did you do that? And I said, Well, it was for charity. And I felt it was which is important. It was a children’s charity, but I can give to you know plenty of ways to charities, but I loved that concept of stepping outside of the because it was literally stepping outside of the fear, I was terrified. Yeah. And yet, there was something about making that ultimate step out off of the side of that building. And somehow knowing that most likely I’d be perfectly safe. Yes. And one of the things that I come up against a lot with people is, and I’ve learned over the years of having children is you learn to be resourceful, really resilient, and reinvent your life. Because it’s necessary on a daily basis, when you have kids, you don’t have time to spend a lot of time on yourself. And you also, you just have to be you have to, you’d have to get your work done with your children, you have to be there for them. And that imparts a certain wisdom over the years. And one of the things that I’ve learned too, is that most of what we’re afraid of never happens. And when you’re a parent, and I don’t know if you’ve been one, but when you’re a parent, you have some pretty scary moments. And somehow, you get through it. And sometimes they have really sad endings. And many, most of the time they don’t, that’s a piece that being a grandparent and a mother has taught me even more is that you, you can pretty much most of the time, push through and get to the other side of it. And separate yourself from all the anxiety and say, Okay, take a deep breath, and there’s the yoga piece, right? Take a deep breath, try to get your emotions out of it. Look at what is really true. And then take a plan of action, and then you surrender to it. You just have to let it happen. That’s actually part of something I offer. It’s my six step guide to answering most most of life’s messiest questions.

Achim Nowak  27:02

And it’s a beautiful example of great life wisdom, you know that? You don’t just spout it, because you’ve read it somewhere, you’ve learned it. And it’s in you. That’s what I hear, which is the beauty of what you what I just heard you say. The question comes to mind is if you had a magic wand, and you could say is, you here are some things I would like to do more of in my life, because I can make it happen. And here are some things I would like to do less of in my life. What would fan like to do more of and what what would you like to

Fran Keogh  27:38

do less of more travel? Yeah, I’ve traveled quite a bit, but I want to travel a lot more. And my husband and I both have talked about that. And I’ve also I like to travel independently sometimes too. I love that. I’ve done quite a lot of independent travel again, thanks to the support of having a spouse who well was was very supportive of all that, it makes a big difference. So travel more when I travel, I like to go as a traveler, not a tourist. So I don’t like to go to the typically tourist. I want to really learn Spanish, I got some basics. I speak French, or I did speak French pretty fluently because I live for three years in France. And I would like to learn Spanish. I want to write a cookbook for my children calling me for recipes. No, I love the fact that they call but they want me to write a recipe book. I want to do more hiking. And I actually have this yearning right now to spend some time and I have no idea what that looks like, with indigenous people. Maybe southwest. I don’t know, I learned something from their lives. Just a little piece inside me that sort of nips at my my heels occasionally. And I that one I’m not sure what that’s about where that’s coming from, but maybe I will pursue that. I would like to facilitate and CO facilitate more workshops, and especially in rather special places that resonate for me sailing, I want to really learn to sail and actually my husband and I do have a plan next year or being well that we’re going to spend a week getting our certification for a bareboat sailing, so that’s pretty exciting. And at 70 It’s like Am I crazy. You know what if I slip and break my hip was and maybe there’s another play in there somewhere? I’d like to do a play again. Yeah. I do some volunteer work.

Achim Nowak  29:40

Well, what just delights me as I’m listening to you. It’s not the first time I’ve asked this question and most people offer a one or two things. But I’m delighted by the clarity of your answer. I buy your passion for doing lots more stuff and I was immediately thinking, Well, of course Fran can do all those things. They’re all completely possible. Is there anything you would like to do less of?

Fran Keogh  30:11

I’m actually doing it. Some of it right now is disconnecting, I want to do less of connecting as in negative, the negative whirlwind that goes around us all the time. I want to become less judgmental. I don’t think I’m an overly judgmental person at all. But we’re all can be judgmental. And that’s a challenge right now, especially.

Achim Nowak  30:39

What’s your recipe or your tip or your guidance for becoming less judgmental? I certainly catch myself all the time with my judgments. Well,

Fran Keogh  30:49

a book that I just reread is the Four Agreements. Ah, I love that book. Yes. And it’s so it’s so simple. And yet it’s not. It’s simple on the surface. And if you follow that, you’re pretty much there. Right? Be impeccable with your word. Yeah. In every so often, I find myself starting to say something, even just mentally, okay, be impeccable with your word. But then I remember the fourth one, which is do your best. And that’s sort of, okay. All right. I’m trying, I’m trying. But doing less connection to, frankly, social media, I’m using social media as a tool. Doing a podcast is wonderful. I love that. But I don’t want to be connected to all this others outside turmoil. Because I can’t control nine most of it. And how does that serve me? How can I be the best version of myself and help others out in the world? When if I’m not solid and grounded. And I think it’s people just get caught up in it so much. And it’s so disruptive to the foundation of our lives.

Achim Nowak  32:01

What strikes me as I’m listening to you is you’re 70 years old, you’re fully involved in wishes for both external exploration and learning, but also inner exploration and learning. Which is just marvelous. Now, we talked about elder wisdom. So if you friend today with what you know, had a chance to share a few words of wisdom with, with younger friend who wanted to be an actress and to get this as without trying to change the trajectory of your life. But what would you want her to know that you think might be helpful?

Fran Keogh  32:47

never stopped learning and evolving. Actually, I was gonna say fearless. But when you said to me, you ask, I think that’s really important. Ask for what you want. Because if you don’t ask you cannot receive. Be fearless in asking, be fearless in understanding and recognizing what you want a need in your life, and then go out and ask for it. There is one other thing that I’d like to add, that I think is really important, that’s helped me and that I would highly recommend or maybe just invite to use a good code base, I would invite others and starting at a young age, not just in your elder years, but reassess your what you want. I’m not going to say goals, because that implies, you know,

Achim Nowak  33:54

we’ve talked a little bit about goals and plays hard work, right? Yeah,

Fran Keogh  33:58

it’s more a reflection about, okay, what do I want now in my life, and reassess it regularly, every few years. Because what happened for me, and I think it happens for a lot of people, we continue to do the things that we thought we wanted to do. And then we, if we stop, and we ask ourselves, actually, do I really want this now? Or is this what I think I want? Or that I’m supposed to want? That’s a big one. I’m doing what I think I’m supposed to want because this is what society or my family or whatever it thinks I should be doing, and get really in touch with that, but reassess it periodically, because it’s going to change.

Achim Nowak  34:38

It’s such a wonderful call to action for conscious living and conscious examination of what really, and allowing ourselves to grow and change. Right, right. Yeah. This is a wonderful message to end on. I was very inspired list to you and to the one on how the unfoldment of your life and I know we’ve mentioned that you, you help others figure some of this stuff out as well as a coach and there might be people listening who go gosh, I, how do I find out more about Frankie? Oh, and what she does so where would you direct them to?

Fran Keogh  35:20

My website, Fran keo.com. Really simple. I’m on LinkedIn also different key. Oh, they can certainly email me. Yeah, receive emails. That would be Fran at Frankie. Oh, calm. Yeah, that would probably be the best way I love to share. I’m sort of sometimes feel like I’m a clearinghouse. You know, I read a lot of different books on my shelf and, and I tried to connect people, I love connecting people. You know, it’s such such fun.

Achim Nowak  35:51

Thank you for the gift of this conversation. I in many ways, I think you and I are kindred spirits. So I did chuckled to myself, as I heard about your adventures and listeners reach out to Fran and learn more.

Fran Keogh  36:06

Okay, um, I want to say thank you, to you so much. I have really enjoyed this. You’re such a gracious host. And I have to say that I am surprised and delighted to find myself in this array of such people who your guests. As a guest on your show, I’m surprised to be here in many ways that because sometimes, you know, there’s a lot of very accomplished people out there. And I look at my lack of certifications or degrees or books or whatever. So I love that you appreciate that. So thank you.

Achim Nowak  36:44

For our listeners as we wrap up. I hope it’s clear. You are here because you invited yourself to the party. What’s your pardon it so thank you for reaching out to me. Until we speak again be Well,

Fran Keogh  36:58

thank you. Bye bye.

Achim Nowak  37:03

Like what you heard, please go to my fourth act.com And subscribe to receive my updates on upcoming episodes. Please also subscribe to us on the platform of your choice. Rate us give us a review and let us all create some magical fourth acts together. Ciao