THE IMPERFECT SHOW NOTES
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What I learned growing up in Russia, in Ukraine, you’re kind of happy of small things, like you don’t have that expectation of big dreams. You’re just happy of what you have. And this makes me being happy when I see something like a blue sky here in situville, or I see the ocean, I can kind of feel it much more than people who grew up seeing all this beauty. You know,
Achim Nowak 00:27
Welcome to the MY FOURTH ACT PODCAST. I’m your host, Achim Nowak, and I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected lives. If you like what you hear, please subscribe on any major podcast platform so you won’t miss a single one of my inspiring guests, and please consider posting an appreciative review. Let’s get started. I am so happy to welcome Tania Rivilis to the MY FOURTH ACT PODCAST. Tania is a Ukrainian born portrait artist. In 2012 she moved from Russia to Germany, where she started to paint. These days, Tanya and her husband Leo divide their time between Achim in Germany, and stubal in Portugal. Tania’s lush rooting and Neo romantic portraits have quickly drawn international attention. They have been featured in numerous group shows in the United States, the Netherlands, the UK, Denmark, a solo show is open in Madrid right now, and Tania won the prestigious William Locke prize from the Royal Portrait society in London. She showed it Christie’s. She had one of her stunning artworks displayed on a huge shining billboard across New York’s Times Square. Tania, as we like to say, is on a role. The other thing that I absolutely love is that while Tanya is a self taught artist, she has recently begun offering art workshops for other emerging painters, and she’s done this in Italy and in Portugal. Welcome Tanya.
Tania Rivilis 02:19
Thank you for inviting me. I’m so happy to be here.
Achim Nowak 02:22
I am glad we get to have this conversation. You and I share many things in common. One is that we’ve moved from country to country. We live in different places, right? And when I think of Ukraine and Russia, because part of your childhood was a young adult, I was in Russia, I have all sorts of stereotypes about that world where I have never been, but I’m wondering, How did growing up in those countries shape you as a person, or how you see the world? I know that’s a big question.
Tania Rivilis 02:55
Yeah, it is. I remember that we have to be kind of short in answers, otherwise can talk and talk and talk, so we don’t have time for that. First of all, I want to say that Russia is so different from Moscow. I was born in Ukraine, and I grew up with my parents because I didn’t have a father, so my mom went to Moscow to earn some money and to find a job. Before I was like eight, I grew up in Ukraine with my grandparents, and was kind of wild childhood, so I was more like in nature, very independent child, like adventures and everything. I had very interesting childhood. I
Achim Nowak 03:35
have to laugh, as you say that, because that almost sounds like a stereotype of an artist, right?
Tania Rivilis 03:42
Probably, yeah, wild and free. That was my childhood, for sure. And then my mom took me to Moscow. I wanted also to say that Russia is not in Moscow, so we have two main cities, Moscow and St Petersburg, and they are so different from other cities in Russia, I should say that I was lucky enough to grow up in Moscow because Moscow is closer to Europe. Moscow is like a city with big businesses and nice restaurants and cinemas, so you could kind of grow up like, uh, with all the possibilities that probably other people who lives in small cities, they don’t have. It was like, lucky to grow up there, and I realized that growing up there, it gave me, first of all, some strengths, because, like, it was kind of a brutal times 90s and post Soviet times is also like, not easier times. I have no many expectations that what I learned growing up in Russia, in Ukraine, you kind of happy of small things. You don’t have that expectation of big dreams. You’re just happy of what you have. This makes me being happy when I see something like a blue sky here in situ, or I see the ocean. And I can kind of feel it much more than people who grew up seeing all this beauty I can easily. I recently visited Switzerland, and I was crying when I saw mountains for the first time. It was so overwhelming. So yeah, probably this kind of things. When
Achim Nowak 05:18
you mentioned Switzerland, I remember landing in a plane in Geneva early in the morning from the United States, and you’re jet lagged, and I was on a bus with people, then the bus went up into the Alps, and I felt like I was on some kind of drug. It was so stunning,
Tania Rivilis 05:35
beautiful, right? Exactly, and that’s exactly why I’ve
Achim Nowak 05:38
been Yes. How can the world be so beautiful? Yes, right, yeah. Well, you described Moscow beautifully. What I’m curious about is when you were a teenager or a young woman, and did you think about what you wanted to be as an adult? Did you have ambitions? Did you not? How did you think about your future?
Tania Rivilis 06:01
I was actually thinking about this question, and I realized that I don’t remember any of my big dreams before I was probably 18 or something. It’s so weird. I don’t remember dreaming of something big, probably as a normal kid. I was dreaming about some object to have a bicycle or whatever. My first big dream was when I was, like, around 17 or something, we went to Finland. You know, I don’t have a rich parents. It was kind of like a big scene to go to Europe that time we went to Finland, and I saw that country can be that beautiful and clean. People could smile every morning to you saying good morning. It was so different, and I realized that I want to live in Europe. And was my dream, definitely, to move from Russia, although I love Russian culture and news and art, but that was not a country that I wanted to live in. That was probably my biggest dream I can remember about
Achim Nowak 07:03
Yeah, and you ended up in Germany? Yeah, funny. And I don’t know the whole story, so I’m curious number one, how did you end up in Germany? And how did you end up in Achim, which is where you partially live, as somebody who’s originally from Germany, I’m from Hagen, which is about 45 minutes from right. Hagen is a pretty ugly city. Achim is a little prettier, but it’s also not one of the great sexy cities in Germany. Exactly, how did you end up in Achim a sort of an average German city?
Tania Rivilis 07:39
It’s a funny story. It starts, actually, when I were coming back from my university and I was going in my house like this, nine stocks house, post Soviet house, is very kind of ugly. And you go inside, and then I realized that I will end up my days going on the stairs with that ugly blue walls like over and over again, and I just realized that I can’t do this anymore, otherwise I will be in that loop. It was so depressive. Then I just sent all like my documents. I collected the documents, and I sent to all countries actually in Europe, and the Germany was the first country who replied me and invited me to study like I wanted to make my master in Media Design degree. And they invited me. I was so surprised. I said, my mom, actually, I’m going to Germany. And she said, Oh, no way, you’re not going. And then in two days, I was actually calling her from Germany. I said, Oh, Mom, I’m in Germany. I’m studying here now. So that how I ended up in Germany, actually,
Achim Nowak 08:41
German said yes to you, I love that. I
Tania Rivilis 08:45
love that’s why I love Germany so much, because they gave me this opportunity to actually go like and explore and visit Europe.
Achim Nowak 08:54
I want to jump into your career as a painter. And for our listeners who haven’t seen your work, your work is just really stunningly beautiful, and you have a big career that’s growing even more so I wanted to say this context, you’re not a hobby painter who paints on weekends, on the sides, you have a big career. So of course, when did you know you wanted to paint, and how did you find the courage to actually paint?
Tania Rivilis 09:24
I always felt that I have something inside me that I want to express. I just didn’t know what. So I tried different things, like dancing, a little bit of acting, all these little things that usually like young people do during their lifetime. I had this feeling. But in Moscow, the life is so different. You’re so into the like, everyday routine. You’re like, it’s so hectic and chaotic. You’re just kind of like a machine. You every day, you work, you try to survive, you try to earn money. When I moved to Germany, I actually had that time to focus. Look inside me. I had the time to read the books, to explore the world myself. And that time, I also met my future husband, Leo, and we start working together and living together. We start working as a media designers, like one evening, he just told me, Don’t you have any hobby, because the person should always have a hobby, otherwise you just go and watch TV and get stupid. And I said, I actually always want to paint. I want to try that. I loved art history in my university, and I always want to try that and painting. So we went to art supplies. We bought some brushes and oils, and that’s how I started, actually, and he has supported me so much in my journey.
Achim Nowak 10:43
Well, I first reaction is, you married the right guy.
Tania Rivilis 10:48
Exactly. I agree, totally.
Achim Nowak 10:51
I appreciate that he encouraged you to pursue your case of art. But another thing you know, because you’re living many people’s fantasy in a way, which is, you start a painting at some point, and then you ended up in galleries, and you won prizes, and you’re such an all over the world. It can sound kind of easy on the outside, but besides Leo, your husband who well supported you at the beginning, who else told you keep going? Because you know that can be very lonely to be by yourself and create art, and I can’t imagine that you didn’t have a lot of doubt.
Tania Rivilis 11:28
Yeah, that’s definitely true. I think sometimes people have a different image of artists, very romantic image of artists. But and also, you know, like everyone see your success through like Facebook, Instagram, the social media there, we show, usually only good things, right? We don’t show our struggles, our tears and all my burnouts and everything that I experience here in my studio. Being on alone, of course, to have a people who support you is essential thing for artists. I know that some artists, their families don’t support them, or their partners don’t support it’s really sad. Probably I should say that I’m lucky enough to have my husband and my sister Marie, who supported me at the beginning all my creative pursuits, all my creative, crazy ideas, she supported me, and even supported me in my family circle. So when my mom said, like, please don’t do that, my sister was always on my side, which is really nice, and she’s still with me, and we still work together, and she supports me as well. But artist is is always I think art is actually a lonely scene, and you always alone, because look at me, I’m in my studio. All my friends are getting together, and I’m here in my studio alone, but at the same time, this is the best place to be. This is my I don’t know this my holy cave, and I’m a smelly shaman sitting here all alone, but I’m super happy to be here.
Achim Nowak 13:00
It’s a beautiful cave, and you’re a wonderful Shaman. So any artist who listens understands what you just said, you know, to get pragmatic again. There’s something about being your studio and creating, and then suddenly your work is being shown to the public. Do you remember when the first time your work was shown in in a group or in a gallery? How did that come about?
Tania Rivilis 13:28
My first ever show was in my garage in Achim next to my house. So just to show people that like not everything you see on Instagram or social media is true, because sometimes you don’t see that early beginning. You know that small steps that artist does. That was my first show in my garage, actually, and my neighbors came to visit, even I sold couple of sketches or something like that. But then it was so funny, because one grandma who lives opposite, she suggested, another people my works, and they invited me to another group show in one church in Netherlands, because Achim is on the border of Netherlands in Belgium. And there there were, like two gentlemen from gallery in Netherlands, a bigger gallery. So they invited me to that gallery, and from that gallery, another gallery in New York. So my works, it’s interesting, but I think this is the main scene that artists, or anyone who wants to be an artist, should do, like, even a small steps they count, you should do it like, even if it’s a small and, and sounds kind of like not important at all. It’s better to do them, rather not to do and wait for bigger fish or something like that. Yeah,
Achim Nowak 14:43
it’s important to be visible, isn’t it, to be and not just keep in the studio. Now to listeners who haven’t seen your work, and you know, I’m a huge fan your work. It’s big scale, classic portraiture, but a very modern. A touch. I would call it Neo romantic. There’s a lot of longing in the people that you paint. The first thing, obviously, and I’ve been to your studio. Anybody goes, you go, she paints a lot of dark skinned people. It’s a world of Dark skinned a lot of men, some women. And you are not I’m curious where does that interest come from? I
Tania Rivilis 15:25
think it’s just the tones and colors that I see in skin. It’s such a beauty to see all these little tones. Even in shadow, there are so many little patches of color. And I love to explore whenever I talk with someone and I have a conversation, usually people think I’m listening to them so carefully, but actually, in my mind, I’m painting them and I’m just looking at this all the external features. I love the color itself. I see the color is probably very bright myself, like physically. Whenever I look around me, I see the colors slightly brighter, I suppose, than other people. That’s why I paint in all these colors. This helps me just to make my art that vivid and vibrant.
Achim Nowak 16:11
Because you do portraits, how many of your portraits are inspired by real people that you have met, versus maybe images you’ve seen or ideas. Sometimes
Tania Rivilis 16:24
I behave like a stalker. If I’m sitting in the restaurant or cafe, I see a person that perfectly matches my characters or like a type of the character. So usually I just come over and ask if I may pain this person and show my Instagram. Instagram helps a lot, because I have a lot of followers and my artists there. So people usually being a bit relaxed, more relaxed after seeing my Instagram. My works. Sometimes even we’re hunting together with my husband, if you may say, so even Leo is showing me a person like a young man sitting over there and he says, Oh, look, look, this is your character. You should definitely ask him to come to your studio. But it’s not always. Sometimes I paint from my imagination. Sometimes it’s just some photos that people from Instagram send me. So it’s like a mix of imagination and real people and some references.
Achim Nowak 17:22
Let’s talk for a moment about so the business of being an artist, and you’re blessed to be upon in your career, where people pay a good chunk of money for your art now, which I hope that will continue to increase even more. Then I mentioned you won a prestigious Portrait Prize in the UK, and you were featured in that trustee. So these are like very prestigious things. And when I hear that, I wonder, did those come to you organically?
Tania Rivilis 17:58
I think almost everything that I did before 2024 were pretty organically. And I do so many things just intuitively. I should say, even when I paint, because I’m a self taught artist, I do things so intuitively, and then I just see that probably in Art Academy, people do the same. But somehow it just inside me, and I can feel it my art career. I feel like it’s half as luck, if I can say that, like just, you know, sometimes I feel I just been lucky. But of course, I did a lot of things to get this luck right, like I was not sitting and doing nothing. It, of course, came because of something that I did all these things were happening because of, like some contacts, I met some people, the right people, probably I talked with someone, and I just try to talk and connect to people, because usually this is what helps you to be visible, to know More, to have more connection to be invited somewhere. For example, the Christie show, I was invited by art dealer whom I met through another artist. It’s usually works like that. Probably it’s half luck and half of the work in connection and meeting people. It
Achim Nowak 19:18
makes so much sense to me, because I think artists, art buyers and art dealers more receptive to an artist like you who actually enjoys having a conversation with them, rather than the artist who just wants to hide in the studio. I mean, you have to work in the studio, but the ability to relate, and the importance of that, and besides the fact that your work is gorgeous, thank
Tania Rivilis 19:38
you so much. But they really try to be an artist who is not the struggling, hungry artist. You know that romantic image of artists that was probably in 19th 20th century. I actually want to be a commercial, successful artist. I want to talk people, meet people, being parties that sell my works. I’m a mental health. With artists. I’m
Achim Nowak 20:01
so struck by the fact that because you and I met here in stubal, and you had just taught a big workshop here for other people who follow work and they wanted to learn from you, they’re also aspiring artists. You’ve done it before in Italy. I love the fact that you, a self taught Painter is doing these workshops for other painters who follow you and love your work. What inside of you draws you to wanting to do that? So
Tania Rivilis 20:30
the story is we were sitting me and Leo and Marie. We were sitting one evening talking about my career and what I should do next, and then we start talking about the workshops that I took part in. It was several workshops in Bruges and Florence St Petersburg. And then I said, actually, that after coming back from the workshop, coming back to my studio, I didn’t have much to use. All the tools that I learned were actually just couple of mixing colors, couple of brushes, tricks, and that’s it. But we artists, we first of all, we want that our works would leave, that it would be sold, right? We want the visibility. Want to be successful. Since Leo is a media designer and a businessman, and Marie works in marketing and strategy, we thought it would be actually really nice if we’ll combine all these things that artists actually needs, art marketing, the personal coach who will say that you’re not that bad as you think you are, that procrastination is normal, that burning out is normal. So all these things and help you. Then talks with gallery owners to understand how the gallery works and all these things like art material, so we may kind of meet so many lectures and mentor sessions that helps artists to come back to their studios and use these tools to explore, to do experiments, to sell their work, promote themselves, use the social media, etc. And also, my focus is not, you know, like people come into workshop to repeat the style of an artist. My focus is actually to help artists to find their signature style. Because, you know, this is the thing that all artists are actually hunting and wanting, right? Like the signature style that people immediately understand that this is the artist. And with all the experiments that we do during the workshops and all the things that I invented, like the tools and the practices, it helps artists actually to grow themselves as a unique artist with a unique signature art style,
Achim Nowak 22:40
I love that you’re integrating all of those perspectives, because I understand why that’s so important. I do want to talk for a moment about the importance of place and where we live. I sort of made fun of Achim saying in sort of an average German city, you and your husband Leo, have a beautiful home in stuval, which is 45 minutes out of Lisbon, an old commercial fishing port. You live in the old part of stuval, which do you have a sense of how living here influences you, both in your art and how you live your life?
Tania Rivilis 23:17
Definitely, I should say, if people who are interested in my works would go to my Instagram and scroll a little bit down to see my works that I created in Germany, they would see that my palette was actually bluish, purplish, cold colors. And when I moved to Portugal, I started using a lot of warm colors, like rich yellow, vibrant orange, you know, the worm colors. So actual environment affected me so much, even the way I see my paintings and I see the colors. First of all, it just, I’m so happy just to be here and see the blue sky. The small thing that makes you happy, the small things that are free. Cost you like the price is nothing. You just go outside, you see the beautiful sky, the sun, the palm tree. You take the coffee that is like 90 cents, and it’s a very good coffee, or a wine. All these small things makes you so happy, you kind of fill in the vibrant life you live in the moment every day is so unique and so different at the same time. And also the community, the people who came to situ, I feel like they’re so special. Everyone here have a dream. Everyone is so full of energy, so full of life. And I’m so happy to meet all these people. Of course, you like you had the guests, Tracy and Daryl that I love to so nice to see all these people and meet and connect with them. It’s just nice to be here. I feel like every day I live full life, like on full scale.
Achim Nowak 24:53
You describe life at stool very beautifully. I was thinking of just yesterday I needed to buy some. Chocolates as a gift for somebody. And around the corner from where you and Leo live, there’s Leonidas chocolate.
Tania Rivilis 25:05
I saw your post on Instagram, so I walked down
Achim Nowak 25:09
the street. But just the pleasure of just walking through those streets to buy the chocolates. We’re recording this at the beginning of 2025 you just had when a group show in Denmark and you sold some work, you have a solar show in Madrid. You’re going to keep making more and more art. And you describe beautifully right now about just taking it moment by moment, but at the same time, I think we can’t help to occasionally think about the future. What do you think about the future? Are there things you want to do that you haven’t done? Are there aspirations that you, or maybe you and Leo, have that we could talk about?
Tania Rivilis 25:49
Of course, I have so many plans for 2025 actually, I just received an email from National Portrait Gallery where I was selected. My painting is going to London. I’m flying to London in February to drop off some of my paintings for Royal Portrait society, for Oxford University. The commission that I had, I have so many plans. It’s London, then New York workshop. I’m going to have a workshop in New York. It was one of my dreams, actually, to go to New York, and now it’s connected to art as well. So I’m super happy. What else like my solo show in Madrid. I’m also looking for a new studio, because right now I’m renting a studio, but I would love to have my own, of course, you know, like to put all the plans, paint all the walls, and be here, like in my second home, it’s so full of like we’re planning. Also a couple of workshops here in Portugal, with art Syndicate, with the workshop that I do here myself organizing with Leo and Marie. There are a lot of friends. Oh, there will be a workshop in Italy as well. I don’t know. I think I’m gonna travel a lot. I’m gonna have a lot of fun. I will paint a lot of paintings. I’m super excited about to sound 25 it’s already started. Super cool.
Achim Nowak 27:07
I sense your excitement, and obviously I know you’re going to keep painting, but I heard the word workshop a lot in different countries, which is very cool. The bigger our career gets, sometimes we lose those moments, right? Because there are pressures and demands, and we have to make the people in London happy and the people in New York happy. So how do you juggle the demands of becoming really, really an in demand artist with enjoying the simple moments in Old Town stupa where you live.
Tania Rivilis 27:43
I have a role, and I started having it not so long time ago. I realized that art is actually a job, and you should be professional. You know, like this helps you just to divide your professional life from your personal life. I’m here in my studio, I’m working. I lost that like image of artist who is always waiting for inspiration and a muse or something. I understood that art is actually a job, and everyone who wants to be an artist should forget about that dreamy dream that artists should be always in kind of flow and connected to cosmic powers, whatever it means, but it’s actually a job. And of course, it’s connected to some creativity and inspiration and but as Picasso said, inspiration exists, but it should find you working. You have to work to get it. But I should say that your book about being in moment is actually really great, and I read it now, and it helps me really understand what I had in my subconscious, you know, like I kind of understood it, but with your words in your book, it was so easy to get it and so related to what you written.
Achim Nowak 28:59
Well, it’s very kind of you to mention it. Thank you. Now, here’s a question I ask every guest of mine, and I’m especially curious, because your life story is so interesting, surprising when you think of Tanya right now, beginning of 2025 you are an established artist. Your career is continuing to expand, and probably your life probably looks very different from what you might have imagined when you were in Moscow, right? If you were to say some words of wisdom to young Tanya, what would you say to her?
Tania Rivilis 29:33
Oh, I have a list of things that I would love to say my younger version. So first of all, I would say care less and focus more, meaning that care what other people thinking, because usually other people even don’t think about you. So just focus on what you love and care about what you do. Because other people, they’re so busy with their own travels and lives, so they’re actually not. Think of what your painting is about, or like how beautiful you look, or whatever care less for sure. Then another thing is, the more often you face the fear, the faster it goes away, meaning that, for example, before I was so afraid talking on public or having any interviews, my voice would be shaken, and I would say some like, weird stuff. I still say it a lot, and it’s fine. I just realized it’s normal to be a human. But you know, the more I have this topics and talking on public, it’s easier. It’s getting easier. So it’s nice to face your fear more often, then it goes away. And another thing is probably that art is a job. Because in the beginning, I was thinking about romantic image of art, but if I would focus on it as a job, I would probably succeed faster and have probably better results. The rest, I think I did really good job. Looks like my steps that I did were kind of right, because look at me. I’m here. I’m painting. I have my own studio. I’m traveling, having shows. Looks like I did pretty good job. I should be proud of myself. Well done. Tanya.
Achim Nowak 31:15
Well done. Tanya. That’s a great end conversation. Where would you suggest they look so they can get a better idea? Yeah,
Tania Rivilis 31:25
Instagram is the probably most active social media that I’m using right now, Tanya rivilus, so I think it’s easy to find with all i Tanya reveals, and probably my website, which is taniarivilus.com Also easy, easy peasy,
Achim Nowak 31:44
wonderful. I have looked at both your Instagram and your website, and I encourage people who want to get a close up of your art look at the website on an old fashioned laptop or computer, because you get to see the art really big, and you really get to see the the emotional intensity of the colors with which you paint.
Tania Rivilis 32:04
I’ll come to my exhibition and see the paintings in life.
Achim Nowak 32:08
I’m in Madrid, New York, or wherever. A little bit promotions. Tanya, thank you so much for the conversation, and have an amazing year. Okay,
Tania Rivilis 32:18
big hug. Bye,
Achim Nowak 32:20
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