THE IMPERFECT SHOW NOTES

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These show notes come via the Otter.ai service. The transcription is imperfect. But hopefully, it’s close enough – even with the errors – to give those who aren’t able or inclined to learn from audio interviews a way to participate.

Ande Lyons  00:00

Dean Chartham, the last class the last day of the MBA program, she looks at all of us in the room and says, look, here’s the scope, in her own beautiful British way, and said, if you go to work for someplace, and it’s not a fit for who you are and who you be, no, you will never be successful. You can be brilliant at what you do and have the most incredible skill set for what they need. And if you don’t belong there, you’re gonna be miserable and you’re going to fail.

Achim Nowak  00:35

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your Fourth Act? I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected fourth acts. Listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you’re listening on. Let’s get started.  I am just delighted to welcome Ande Lyons to the My fourth act podcast. Ande  is a four times business founder as startup champion, a podcaster, the marvelous livestream host of startup live and co host of Boston’s founders life pitch event, and he is committed to championing diverse founders voices. She is passionate about helping startup founders of any age, maximize the joy and minimize the heartaches of their startup journey. And let me add Ande is just a really wonderful human being. Hello, Ande.

Ande Lyons  01:49

Oh, I came down, stop, go on. Thank you so much for having me today. I’m delighted to be here. And of course, spending time with you any time is pure deliciousness.

Achim Nowak  02:01

Thank you, Ande. Listeners, you can tell that Ande and I have met before I both respect and adore this guest. And I want to start with where I started every podcast, Ande. And I actually have never heard this from you. So when you were a young girl or teenager growing up? Who did you want to be?

Ande Lyons  02:22

Well, given the role models for me were stay at home moms? Uh huh. I was very confused. I just naturally went toward, you know, creating and moving and poorly things and deriving and directing myself. So there was no, there was no What did I want to be? I just wanted to lead I wanted to be involved. I wanted to be on purpose in high school I came was on quote the ski team. It wasn’t a varsity sport. And when I was only 15, I said, Oh, no, no, we need to make this a varsity sport. We need respect here. Okay. And so I met with the powers that be not only at the school, but throughout the Merrimack Valley because there was a very active ski league. Yeah. And by the time I ended my junior year, we had a varsity sport where everybody was able to earn letters. It was amazing. So that was just one of the things I did. I was a volunteer at a suicide hotline and drug hotline, doing all these things were self directed, but I didn’t have anyone in my life that said, oh, here’s where you need to point that I grew up in a very sheltered what we like to call old Yankee home here and environment. And so all my role models were playing tennis and Golf and Country Club, and yes, you’ve got your four year degree, but then you got married and had kids. So it was a challenging time.

Achim Nowak  03:46

I’m struck what I’m hearing is that there was from a young age what I call a little go getter spirit and join it. Let me do this. Do you have a sense of where that came from? Was it just there? Did you ever question it?

Ande Lyons  03:59

I it was questioned and might again very waspy old Yankee family. Yeah, what quiet you enough. So I think it was in my DNA after you know, decades of exploring and then my husband hopping on ancestry.com I came to learn that I have a lot of that in my DNA. I was just blessed to have it all come together in this perfect way. But instead of going off to college, and really it came both my parents my dad went to Colgate my mom went to Skidmore. This is in the early 40s. Right? None of their children went to college that tells you something about what was going on. Right? It was Yeah, we all looked good. And boy, were we graded all the right things, horseback riding, skiing and all of tennis and golf but in great manners. But you know, having a purpose in life that just was not encouraged, especially as a woman and I didn’t go off to college I got was accepted, but I didn’t like where I got accepted. And so I went off Had my Wonder Bread years and those of you you know who are your fourth DAC? You know what I’m talking about the Wonder Bread commercials right where you grow in 12 different ways. I had six very life harrowing years and came back and restarted that girl, you know, needed a lot of healing and a lot of love. As I mature to the adult woman came for us. I came back here to Boston, I went to secretarial school, right? Katherine Gibbs, back in the day, right? went to work for actually founders. I went to work for entrepreneurs as their exact systems outside the door of remarkable business owners with companies with 50 plus folks working there. And they call those my startup bootcamp years because I got to see like, how do departments run? And how does those co lead and how do they finance all of this and it was wonderful. And that night, I went to school, I went to Northeastern night school and started to build you know, my undergraduate degree. And then after I met my girly man, the greatest gift in my life and all my dreams wrapped up. It came true. I learned that our local college here in Boston Simmons College and all women’s college. Yes, two Dean’s from Harvard Business School PhDs have been teaching at Harvard Business School forever. They started an MBA program for women in 1974, because they got tired of hearing, seeing and watching the few women who were at HBS Harvard Business School in the classroom, ever been heard, right being just mowed over by the guys in the room. And they launched this wonderful MBA program for women. And what they realized is women don’t always get the best start in life. They had 1% of their accepting class, matriculating were what they called the non traditional student, I got in without a full undergraduate degree, but let me tell you, it came. It wasn’t because of my GMAT scores, because they told me not once, but twice. We don’t accept students with Gene read scores this low.

Achim Nowak  07:08

And the I just had to share this with you what when I went back to graduate school in my 40s, as somebody who didn’t grow up in an American school system, I was terrified of the friggin tests you have to take to get in. And one of my decision point was I went to an Interdisciplinary Graduate School Program at NYU, where you were admitted based on life experience, and not the stupid test scores. So I totally relate to what you just said. Let me add two more things. I happened to be very familiar with Simmons College, because I spent many years working in the corporate world with a female professor there who I adore in drug gridwork. So I have great reverence for Simmons College. What also strikes me about your story, and I want to link your story to our fourth act audience, because sometimes people are done with corporate life there in the 60s or 70s. But the thing maybe I should start a little business, you know, why not? I want to do I don’t want to work for anybody else. But having a business would be great. So let me get to you. What strikes me about your, your journey in life, is that you started for businesses or startups, as you say, instead of working full time for other people, what were your inner levers that went shoot? I want to do my own thing. Could

Ande Lyons  08:34

you talk about that? I would be delighted to. Because I’ve been unemployable since 1992,

Achim Nowak  08:41

I salute you for that.

Ande Lyons  08:42

Thank you. I fell off the wagon twice. But that’s another story. Here’s the scope, you know, and this is, this ties into the MBA program, because Dean chartham, the last class, the last day of the MBA program, she looks at all of us in the room, and says, look, here’s the scope, in her own beautiful British way, and said, if you go to work for someplace, and it’s not a fit for who you are, and who you be, no, you will never be successful. You can be brilliant at what you do, and have the most incredible skill set for what they need. And if you don’t belong there, you’re gonna be miserable, and you’re going to fail. And so what did I do? That’s great advice, wrote that all down. And then I went into banking. But I went into banking for a strategic reason. I knew my resume needed to get shored up especially this is 1989. Right? And I knew that I wanted to do crunch numbers on every single industry. I wanted to learn how a bank thought so it was a very bumpy ride for three years I got the skill sets I need it had and I might have stayed there even though most everyday was very difficult. But I did get bounced under a very dramatic circumstance. So I became what I called The Reluctant on. printer, it was never my intention, even though it clearly was an obvious thread of who I am to just take charge and start making things happen. But to tie into your question for for that, why not start a business, you have an extraordinary amount of lived experience, it doesn’t necessarily need to match up in the perfect founder market. Meaning, you know, you don’t have to go ahead and do what you’ve always been doing. Every single one of my businesses came to me as a stray cat at the door howleen until I let it in. I had no founder market fit for college broadcast our first business where we raised over 8 million in VC funding during the.com years. For my food business, oh, heck, no. But you know what, there’s just so much that you’ve learned and lived. And this is why mentorship is so important. You don’t even know what you’ve learned in lives. Sometimes, until you go and you start a business and you start tapping into these areas of yourself, you’re gonna say, Holy smoke, you know, especially your fear of uncertainty, especially some of the personal development aspects of launching a business. It really, it’s so rewarding. And I believe that’s why we have such a huge amount of folks over 50 that have become entrepreneurs. So

Achim Nowak  11:22

I’d like to talk about one of your businesses as sort of hidden under the microscope. Because I first met you when you had a marvelous business called bring back desire. Desire is an illusion, illusion to sexuality. You’re a marvelous front person for this business. And I think in this business, you dealt with the highs of the business, the incredible joys, but also experienced the challenges and frustrations. So if we use this as a template, what are some of the joys rewards that stand out? And what are some things that might have been challenging? Because we we learn from both?

Ande Lyons  11:58

That’s right. Well, everybody bring back to sire was a playful, tasteful 21 plus website. And I launched it after I turned 50, I have to tell you, as a woman who had been with her darling man, year after year, I understood and with children and all the things that can take a really strip a woman have any desire for sex. I also knew that was an important component, not just for me, but for the relationship. And it wasn’t about would turn my husband on. It was what would turn us a woman on knowing what is your desire and understanding what techniques I had figured out along the way and thought maybe there’d be a solution to help other women. So my target market was, of course, over 50. And what I quickly found out in my wonderful professional development world here in Boston, and community was like, Oh, hell, no, you’re not doing that. Are you? gonna ruin everything? And I really said no to this business. And trust me, I did a business plan pitch. When I launched the business that came, I used a business plan competition we had here in Boston, it helped me understand, you know, this is when I first started the idea. It was 2008. So blogging was just happening online was just happening. I had to figure out what did that look like. And I used the business plan competition folks as a, you know, way to force myself to figure it out. Well, I came in the semi finals, and I called the professor who was leading the charge and said, No, no, no, I don’t put someone else that I’m talking about orgasms, right? I’m talking about clitoral stimulation, things like that. And this is Boston. I mean, puritanical more. And she’s like, No, we love this idea. And I’ve got two phenomenal female founders to help support you and mentor you. And I was like, Oh, okay. Yeah, well, that was terrible. And they still talk about the pitch to this day, the room was filled with VCs and really top level folks in Boston’s healthcare and legal and other worlds. You could hear crickets when I was done, but I had to figure things out while keeping as you said, my name and my face at the forefront. So I finally launched the business in 2011. And I’m telling you, I laughed every single day, because there’s so much tongue in cheek that you can do. And I will just maybe give everybody a little laugh right now, which is one of the questions I would get a lot again, from my female friends over 50 would be like, what is your husband say about what you’re doing? And I say, I loves it when I bring my work home. Wait, you know, but we had to talk about serious topics as well, because, you know, folks were turning into roommates and sharing their life and then wondering why affairs were happening. We had to talk about why you wanted to stay tuned in and turned on the hard time was, you know, just trying to get people being willing to hear and wanting to talk about this and struggling with how to keep it. In the right tasteful, playful tonality was the best branding exercise I could have possibly done for, again, keeping Ande Lyons professionally on Twitter and at bring back desire on Twitter and keeping those conversations happening. I did a lot you guys can go, just to bring back desire on YouTube, you can see all my fun videos talking about, yep, you got it. But it really did help people. I would say, under 45 crowd, they were all about the vibrators everything they knew what I was talking about, it was great. But the over 45 crowd, I think I should have actually, in hindsight, probably geared it more toward men who wanted to then have these conversations with their wives or you know, you send the guy into the pawn shop to get the good stuff. And you know, the women are still under the umbrella of you’re not feeling comfortable talking about what turns them on, or exploring what turns them on. So bring back desire, had a really great run, it was tons of fun. And I got to tell you, not only did I laugh a lot, but helped a lot of folks get tuned in and turned on.

Achim Nowak  16:17

Which is a gorgeous tagline. Thank you. And I hope what our listeners are hearing and this is what I’m thinking as I listen to you is you pursued something that you were passionate about, that you could easily have talked yourself out of? You got lots of signals to not do it. But rebel Ande said, dammit, I meant to do this for now. Because you are a serial startup person, and it had its run. I appreciate the complexity of experiences you alluded to when you do a business that’s perhaps a little taboo to some people. Yes, but you feel very strongly about it.

Ande Lyons  16:57

Yeah, so it just like, you know, when when I talk about startup life and all how hard the struggle is real, we can still ensues it, infuse it with enthusiasm. You know, it’s the same ability to do that. Regarding sex regarding intimacy, we regarding you, what are you going to do to stimulate that part of your brain? Because the biggest sex organ is between your ears?

17:23

Yes, it’s a mind game.

Achim Nowak  17:25

Yes. Word from your sponsor. That’s me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast www.my, fourth active.com, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth acts. Please check it out. And now back to the conversation. You’re just mentioned startup life, which is your current venture, and you’re a very active visible champion for diverse entrepreneurs or startup founders in the Boston area and beyond. What also strikes me about it, I’m 66, that at my age, I have learned to really embrace being a mentor. I mentor people more I’ve stepped into it. I naturally enjoy it in what I see with you in this container that you have. You’re able to draw on decades of wisdom and serve younger startup founders. Could you just talk about what you love about doing what you’re doing right now?

Ande Lyons  18:46

Thank you so much. You know, I launched startup life because I was witnessing some really tough business advice online. Also, when I launched it, I became a mentor to local accelerator programs that were volunteer mass challenge and entrepreneurship. For all. There are several things that I loved doing. First of all, as a seasoned founder, I was able to hold up a mirror and say to the first time founders luck, look what you have done. Because the glorification of entrepreneurship is filled with unicorn, bro culture, vibes, I feel that if you get something launched and people buy it, and you feed your family, it’s a win. If you get something launched and folks are, you know, repeat purchases are happening. And then maybe you’re feeding the community to why and if your song called and you happen to want to go and scale and get to be 50 million 500 billion or go into the unicorn thing wonderful. But so often these first time founders are coming into the place as an employee mindset and they have to make that shift into being self directed. And that includes having a mentor who can say, Look what you’ve done, and add perspective. Because there are so many mistakes that you’re making every single day, it’s so easy to just go, Oh, my God, what was I thinking, get me back on payroll quick. And mentoring, for me allows me to hold up the mirror. But it also just some really simple learned, lived experiences that I’ve had that I can add value. And folks, you don’t have to be a seasoned founder like me to do this, you can be at a wonderful gig for 30 years, or in an industry, working for a large fortune 500 company, your lived experience adds value, no matter what just someone’s life, if you’re thinking of mentoring, I highly recommend it because it’s the gift that keeps on giving. And you have no idea what that ripple effect is going to have. But it’s huge.

Achim Nowak  21:01

I just so appreciate you for celebrating lived experience of use that phrase a few times, it’s gorgeous. And part of my job as I age is to fully own it instead of discarded. The other thing I think of when you hear the word mentorship is we give back but we receive a lot from the people that we mentor, would you just Ande talk about? What do you get back from the people that you have the privilege of supporting and mentoring?

Ande Lyons  21:31

Well, other than their love and adoration for the rest of my life.

Achim Nowak  21:36

I think that was emotional blackmail.

Ande Lyons  21:40

Just seeing them grow, watching them take your advice, or not taking your advice. I mean, let’s face it, if you’ve had kids, you know that mentoring sometimes is not being attached to the outcome, right? And knowing that maybe what you’re saying now isn’t going to be heard, but down the road could be or someone else could end up saying it and it’ll get cemented in. But it’s just watching them, whatever that journey is, be more fully expressed in who they are. And what you do, as you get that you know, back at you like 100 times. And also, even if they choose to just ignore your advice and think you’re the worst thing that ever came across into their life, you still know that you have added value and there’s just there’s just something that’s so intangible about that it’s so meaningful about it as well.

Achim Nowak  22:32

My thought was as you were speaking is there are so many levels to being in relationship actually with ourselves in with those that we mentor it just is such a rich human playground isn’t

Ande Lyons  22:47

right. And you know, the teacher within can come to the surface, the mentor, you know, loving some one through whatever it is they’re going through and not making it about you. And just and of course, it upped my game remind mentorship because it was in the startup world, I became an even better mentor as a result of mentoring and sharing mentorship with other mentors and learning from the other mentors as well as the folks I was meant it’s just there’s you just do not lose you only gain from mentoring someone based on your lived experience.

Achim Nowak  23:25

One of the things that I have admired about you, Ande, since I’ve known you, and it’s especially pertinent hearing about your childhood a little bit today, stuff I didn’t know is I see you as somebody who very boldly steps into being a public person. You are a performer in the best sense and I mean the best since you are amazing on video, you are great onstage you have an infectious energy and spirit that I have a sense you consciously channel and I have a hunch you’ve chosen at some point to play I call it bring out the bigger version of Ande in settings which serves you if I miss represent this, please correct me but talk about that for a moment.

Ande Lyons  24:09

Well, again, we’ll go back to the childhood when you grow up in a Yankee home. It’s like you’re and especially during the time period, you know, post World War Two were in the economic climate and landscape I grew up in, you know, you require your dad to be heard. And it was being a good girl was everything. And so for me to embrace a site, I am a flotation device. People don’t want floatation devices usually, you know, you can push me down and I can I’ve had really horrific things happened to me in life. But it just I just bubble up, I float back up. I’m like, whoo, it’s live. Yay. And that that can rub folks the wrong way. And so one of the things I’ve learned to embrace and thank you so much for asking this again. Is my own personal nature which is and delicious. Yeah. And so when I brand did myself several years ago with Andelicious advice and do everything is framed within the Andeliciousness it’s fun when people say I need something delicious does and it comes back, it helps you filter out those who shudder when you share that when they look at you and that you were just way too a beat from a baby. That’s great. I’m not here to to be caged by you know, your thoughts, you move along and find those that you resonate with. I’m here to vibe with my tribe. And so part of that journey, and again, folks, you know, sometimes we see folks nailing it by the in their 20s or 30s. And you think they figure that out? How are they just so fully expressed so young, my journey, and we cannot compare ourselves with others. My journey has taken me decades to get where I am today, comfortable on video, I love that you think I’m comfortable on stage, I’m still like, give me a beta blocker for the stage thing. But on video I do well, but being able to truly share this without feeling ashamed. Right? without trying to hold back without worrying about is this going to be okay with you, if I’m a little vibrant? No, if it’s not okay with you, God bless you. That’s wonderful. Go find someone who you know, you feel you can resonate with more. But those of you who have held yourself back from what is intrinsically who you be, I invite you to step out and not worry about what everybody else is thinking and come into who you are, you know, pulling back the layers, whatever that looks like, because you will find folks who are going to love that even more about you and learn from you because of that.

Achim Nowak  26:50

I so appreciate the phrase, vibe with my tribe. I like the poetry in it. And I want to just play with that for for any of us, because part of the beauty for me is getting as I get older is I trust myself to vibe more. I think less about how God What are they going to think about me all the things you just said? If it feels right, it feels right. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t. But when I give myself permission, more moments of genuine vibing happen with other people, don’t they? And

Ande Lyons  27:23

they absolutely do. You know, one of the things I’ve noticed maybe Yeah, those tuning in listening in have felt this to set as we age are a lot more careful about how we spend time. Yes, and with whom we spend time Yes, in order to filter out folks who are not going to add value and end up just frustrating. It’s even more important that you show up, whether it’s personally or professionally and you know, to bring this back if if anyone’s thinking of launching a business. Think about that with your businesses. Well, what’s the language? What’s the vibe of this business? And what’s the vibe of the folks that you’re going to serve.

Achim Nowak  28:04

So I know that you are in a good place in your life, your husband shets in a good place in his life, as you look forward. And you have to think about these are some things I’d love to do even more of or have more of this is something I’d like to less of phrase that what comes to mind for you, Ande?

Ande Lyons  28:22

Well, I gotta tell you, what comes to mind is how hard I’ve worked to that, like, Oh my gosh, I’ve achieved what I wanted to achieve here. Now I am reveling in here. And this is really the first time I haven’t been like working with somebody on trying to achieve a dream again, I’m a very driven person and things didn’t like fall together easily and many stages of my life. And so there’s always been another level that I’ve always wanted to go to a really tough obstacle that I’ve had to face to overcome. And I don’t believe in having everything all at once. Right everything you could have it all but maybe not all at once is okay. And so for me, I’m just reveling like what I have figured it out. I have this live show twice a week startup life live show, where I get to amplify diverse founder voices, my core value is enhancing others where I get to create community and connection and celebration. Keeping that moving forward reaching more people, you know, would be wonderful, especially in underserved communities around the world. We live in very rich startup support communities here in Boston in San Francisco, but you know, and then continuing to dissolve the expectations that come with numbers called age. So often we can get caged by our age people will do it, whether you’re 17 or 77. People are going to cage you by what they believe and we can do it to ourselves, and so does Solving that limiting belief. And especially if you grew up when we were growing up, you know, retire, live was where it was at, I have no intention of retiring. There’s this just inconceivable to me. Yet I want people to understand that life is not a race or a competition. There is no time limit on pursuing a dream. There’s no expiration date. And until you take that last breath, there’s such an opportunity for you to do and be more of who you are, if that’s what you’re seeking to do. So for me to be fully expressed right now, while enhancing others and putting a spotlight and mentoring first time founders. Well, you know, live on the show, and of course, it’s archived, so it’s evergreen. And also I’m healthy.

Achim Nowak  30:45

Yeah,

Ande Lyons  30:45

they know who I am, like, my brain works. Right now you check back with me, maybe they’ll get bored. And then a year, I’ll be thinking of doing something else. But right now, it’s like Thank you, God for this day. And I hope I get many more.

Achim Nowak  31:01

so beautifully expressed. What came to my mind? Because what I heard is this reveling here and now and not chasing not pushing, not driving yourself nuts. A listener might think that sounds great. And I do want to start my own little business, perhaps I’m worried that that’s going to create stress, I’m going to be chasing, I’m going to not have that beautiful vibe. Ande, were just talking about there’s a potential tension between those two, what advice would you have?

Ande Lyons  31:34

Boy, I hear you, believe me, you don’t see me hiring about 10 people and scaling, I’ve no interest. I know how many hours a week I want to work, and be involved. And I know what my boundaries are. And believe me, you can create a business that will add value that in depending on your financial condition, you can hire folks to help implement and execute while you bring in your brilliance. And I just interviewed Jenny lefcourt who knew this about herself. And this was a hugely successful female founder in the.com days, and works for a very well known VC firm, freestyle VC firm right now. And she is all about the lifestyle. Yeah. So you can figure it out. You don’t have to have the stresses that you might have wanted to have. And you don’t, when you were younger, to really build something really big, you can build something that feels right, because you have you have life. There’s not this weekend, there’s not this seven days a week, 365 days a year it is living. And so when you’re building a business, where you know you’re adding value, and you’re maybe you’re bringing a product or a service to the world, you can do it your way. Because we want you happy, you can create value, you can create income under your terms, because you may wake up on a Monday and so I’m headed to the beach where I’m headed over here, I’m going to stay in bed. That’s okay. Don’t let old beliefs tell you that that isn’t okay. You wake up another day and you’re ready to conquer the world. Wonderful. It’s a Tuesday or it’s a Sunday just does not matter. It’s a day that you get to live again.

Achim Nowak  33:23

Amen, sister, I’m with you. I want to wrap up with a question. I like to ask all of my guests even though I feel like you’ve perhaps already answered it. But from what you know, now, your vantage point. And you alluded to the fact that for you to get to where you are there was a lot of learning along the way. If you had a chance to whisper into young and easier and give her some words of encouragement and guidance. What would you want her to know?

Ande Lyons  33:52

Me? I read something to you that I wrote 30 years ago and yes, yes, work with passion, how to do what you love for a living. I mean, seriously, if

Achim Nowak  34:01

you wrote that 30 years ago,

Ande Lyons  34:03

no, I didn’t I read it. 30 years, okay. And, but there’s a exercise in here that says, write your epitaph. And so I’ve looked back and this is the advice I would give my younger self which is live, live live. Let my passion for life live on through wherever, reach for your dreams. You can and deserve to be all you are. Don’t hold back, climb every mountain and bask in the dark cloud as thoroughly and appreciatively as you bask in the sun.

Achim Nowak  34:40

Especially that ending I just loved. Thank you. The hard times are just as good. They really are. They really are. I’m sure some of our listeners want to go Oh, I want to find out more. What about what Ande Lyons is doing? So where should they go to learn more about startup life? The Vault and bring back desire. Where would you like to send our listeners?

Ande Lyons  35:05

www.Andelyons.com will tell it all. And if you love hearing startup stories and how folks got where they are, join my Meetup group, hop onto Meetup group and type in startup life live and join the meetup group to receive an alert whenever I go live. And if you want to see some really fun and naughty videos, delivered in just the gal next door style, about how to stay tuned in and turned on, go to YouTube a tab type in bring back desire. Yeah, because I have closed down the website but you’ll find some really fun inspirational things there. And certainly the Facebook page is still up and folks continue to share the meaningful memes on the bring back desire Facebook page.

Achim Nowak  35:52

Thank you so much, Ande. It was a pure pleasure for me to have this conversation.

Ande Lyons  35:57

I thank you. Oh, thank you so much for having me and I’m delighted to share my story and honor to share my story with you and your listeners.

Achim Nowak  36:06

Thanks like what’s your hurt please go to my fourth act COMM And subscribe to receive my updates on upcoming episodes. Please also subscribe to us on the platform of your choice. Rate us give us a review and let us all create some magical fourth acts together. Ciao