Season 1
49 Minutes

E12 | Luis Gallardo | How A Corporate Marketing Whiz Became a Citizen of the World!

Luis Gallardo, 49, is the Former Global Chief Marketing Officer for Deloitte. He has been an advisor to CEOs, thought leaders, Nobel Laureates, political and institutional game changers on strategic personal positioning and brand building. After leaving Deloitte, Luis founded the World Happiness Foundation and World Happiness Fest. He is the Author of “Happytalism and The Exponentials of Happiness” and the Director of the Gross Global Happiness program at the United Nations University for Peace.

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Luis Gallardo  00:00

Imagine traveling to China. A when you are 32 and then you throw to China 22 times or traveling to Vietnam, the Philippines building the global team, and you end up having 3000 marketeers around the world, every single day was an opportunity to learn.

Achim Nowak  00:23

Hey, this is Achim NOwak, executive coach and host of the my fourth act podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your four that I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected for tax, listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you’re listening on. Let’s get started. I am just delighted to welcome Luis guyardo to the My fourth act podcast. Luis is the former global Chief Marketing Officer for Deloitte. He has been an advisor to CEOs, thought leaders, Nobel laureates, political and institutional game changers on strategic personal positioning and brand building. Sometime after leaving Deloitte, Luis founded the World Happiness foundation and World Happiness fest. He is the author of happy to lism and the exponentials of happiness. And he is also the director of the gross global happiness program at the United Nations University for peace in Costa Rica. So listeners, you can already tell we’re going to talk a little bit about happiness with Luis, but above all with as a seeker, and a connector of humans and ideas. And I cannot think of having a better conversation partner. Welcome, Luis.

Luis Gallardo  01:54

Thank you so much again, I’m so happy being here and talking about whatever you want.

Achim Nowak  02:01

I love that open invitation. So let’s jump in. In every podcast with every guest, I love to start with a question about your thoughts and dreams when you were a boy growing up. So when you were a boy, you grew up in Spain, I believe? Who did you think you would be when you grew up?

Luis Gallardo  02:23

Yeah, I love the question. Because a, for some reason, from very early age, I always wanted to be a citizen of the world.

Achim Nowak  02:30

Mm hmm.

Luis Gallardo  02:31

So that was always my answer. I mean, where you want to be, I want to be a citizen of the world. And, and I feel that I’m getting close very close to that. But I lean in. I, I always knew as well that I was very curious to understand how things work. And why people actually were angry. If that was something that from very early age was like, I mean, why are all these people so angry all the time? So I think that I wanted to be Yeah, that kind of seeker that you described at the beginning. But especially as a citizen of the world?

Achim Nowak  03:15

Well, I want to do a little reality check. You know, when mommy and daddy asked us well, what do you want to be when you grow up? Did you actually say I want to be a citizen of the world? Did you actually did were those words in your consciousness?

Luis Gallardo  03:29

Yes, I think so. And I still remember, for some reason that citizen of the world is being with me all the time. I remember then I study is sociology, political science. And I remember that I was a basically, at the genesis of many political parties. I still remember one conversation by the members of that political party talking about passports. And they were saying, well, we should have an international passport. And my mind was like, why should we have a passport at all? Yeah, we are all citizens of the world. So in my mind, he was like, then I remember another conversation about an economist that was saying, well, a currencies, Euro dollars. That was when they said that the Deutsche Mark, were going to disappear in two years. And I still remember that. In front of so many people, I asked the question, why don’t we have one single currency? And the whole room was loving to me. The whole room? It was like, wow, I mean, how is this possible? So I don’t know. I think it might have come subconscious somehow. The a that was in my mind whether we need so much complexity.

Achim Nowak  04:49

Well, I remember as as a German man, how traumatic it was for many Germans when the Deutsche Mark disappeared and Since you talk about citizen of the world, I have a hunch that part of your own journey in mind is that as we get older, our understanding what the world actually is, or means keeps changing, right, and keeps deepening and we discovering more things around that. So what’s your perception of the world today? Let’s just go there. Since you brought it up,

Luis Gallardo  05:28

oh, my goodness, it’s so interesting. It’s so complex. I mean, I truly believe that we are the universe, we as individuals, we are everything and we are the universe. So what we see today is a reflection of who we are individually put together. So it we see a mess, is because we all are really a mess. So that’s the way I look at things is like, okay, is this really a mess? Why? And then I look at the person I say, Okay, how messy this person is. And then I try to understand so the way I see the world today is, is is very challenging, is systemic. In is interconnected. There are more opportunities today than ever before to make a profound change in the positive and the negative. Yeah, there is so much technology in so many ways that we can create vaccines. Yeah. In in a few weeks, we technology was created 10 years ago. And, and I feel that the way I say this is challenging, and is complex, and bad, really the pants at now been in Spain during this interview, because I had to travel a because of my father, and you know that a pass. It’s amazing to see all people and people that I know for many years, how, because of the pandemic, and being isolated, have completely collapse in their thinking. And they talk about conspiracy theories, for example, and they truly believe and they don’t want to believe anything else. And that’s been accelerated by living in isolation. So, yeah, I would say I see the world complex, challenging, but with so much a hope.

Achim Nowak  07:36

Well, we’re going to go back to the world. But one reason I wanted to have this fourth conversation with you is, my sense of you or my story about Louise is that Louise had one kind of life for a while. And then he stepped off the cliff. And he dove into a completely different wild world. And what you’re just talking about is alluding to that already. So that contrast interests me because it takes courage to step into a different world. So if I were to paint the picture of your first world as I see it, and I could be completely wrong, I mentioned that you were with Deloitte and a very senior role. You’ve been with other companies and senior marketing and branding roles. In my mind, I envision a glossy, fast paced, exciting, but probably also pretty stressful life. And you were in that world for a while. So when you think back, what are some things that genuinely excited you? And if you have a moment or two that stand out, that would be great. And if you think of moments where you went, why the hell am I doing this? This is insane. It would be wonderful to hear both sides of that experience.

Luis Gallardo  08:54

Yeah, just just by, by by listening to the question and get excited, because because I still remember when I was an intrapreneur, the lawyer was my client, in Spain, suddenly, a the CEO and an under the former, a communications director, they offer me to join full time, and they actually offer me to bring my clients because they really want wanted me to basically evolve within the company. And just a few months later, when I say yes, the whole industry collapse, Atlantis and collapse Enron WorldCom. There was a the probably the biggest one of the biggest, reputational issues and crisis in so many ways. So many people learn about reputation because it will happen them. And just a few months later, I was living in New York because when we did the job, what we did in Spain was Sound for the global chairman and the global CEO and they say guys, you are doing amazing, you should be running this company for marketing and branding point of view worldwide. And I stayed that put in that position for 12 years. So but then everything moves so fast from being an entrepreneur, being at Deloitte, Spain, moving to New York, having my first kid, a second kid, living in Manhattan, traveling the world for a and changing my passport three times, one 175 countries, that the way I look at that, honestly, it wasn’t stressful at all, it was so beautiful. It was it was a playground. Because a more one of my heroes was Philip Kotler as father more than marketing, and suddenly what the global CEO was telling me build the marketing book for this company. And I would like, I can’t believe this. I mean, I can’t believe that being 31, you have been offered to build a marketing book for one multinational. So everything will expose exciting. And every time I was going to the office, to the CEO office, and then and the second in command, in this case, a Jerry Lima who was the vice president of cleaner market. He they so my excitement, and they really acknowledge that and they say, Wow, always, I mean, we are super happy that you are here. And, and everybody was 16 years old, I was 31. I didn’t get it. And I said, What am I doing here? I mean, it’s too early for me. And they said, that’s what we need, we need exactly what you are bringing here, the energy to travel the world non stop for 10 years. So do it and change your password three times. And then I changed the CEO three times as well, the global CEO, but honestly, when I look back, I don’t feel as stress any any any kind of minimum of a strategy. Everything was imagine traveling to China, when you are 32. And then you try to channel 22 times or traveling to Vietnam or the Philippines building the global team, and you end up having 3000 marketeers around the world, every single day was an opportunity to learn and as a way to get so it was pretty good.

Achim Nowak  12:26

But what strikes me is, I love the metaphor of you were given a playground at 31. But the you part is that you are ready to play in the playground. And the gift you brought to Deloitte is your exuberance and enthusiasm. Were the people that were powerful and could have been your parents said we want you to play in this playground. Yeah. Can we play with that metaphor some more? Because I have a hunch that all of us at different stages in our lives are presented with playgrounds that we either enter or don’t. Or that we visit with enthusiasm or not. Or we choose to learn or not because you talked about learning what other playgrounds have shown up in your life?

Luis Gallardo  13:25

Yeah, I mean, the Lloyd 12 years playground was a huge playground.

Achim Nowak  13:30


Luis Gallardo  13:33

Yes, I was learning to just I remember having to eat early. And meeting immediately with the CEO of the Lloyd a, they are in Rome. And he was like, and we were talking about a marketing reputation, communications, branding, making an impact and so on. So that playground was huge. But you know, I had another two more playground for me before a, one of them was be being an an international observer for the United Nations in after war. Wow. So that was a huge thing. Because I, what I did, I mean, I basically studied sociology, political science, international relations, and then an AMA on conference, racial conflict resolution and peace. And right after that, I joined the this group of international observers that go to countries after conflicts and bring democracy, democracy to those countries, huge playground, but in that case, that was where when I realize that between conflict and peace, there is diplomacy. But the diplomats that I met there, were not me when I grew up. So I met so many people there If that were not good, from my perspective, we’re not going to make an impact. Because they were already a too pessimistic. I mean, for them, they were there yet because they have to be. And I was there because I really wanted to be. And I really wanted to make a positive impact. And I realized that all my energy there was incredible. And you know, when I realized that that wasn’t my playground when my partner me, in Bosnia, when we went there for the first election, we were the couple because you are organizing in groups of two. And then you have the driver and the translator, my partner and I were the couple who got the most certifications of any other international observers in those elections. And I say, How is this possible? I mean, we didn’t go that fast. I mean, we went to many, many schools, we train many, many years. But we were not super fast. And we were the couple that did the most. That brought me a lot. I mean, the Brahmins like, this is not possible. I mean, they should be somebody else, because I’m only 25 here, wow. And I and I got these, No, he didn’t work for me. So after that, is when I say, I’m not sure that being a diplomat in Spain is gonna, he’s gonna be my job. And he’s gonna be the way I’m negative friends. But there was a huge playground. And then the first playground that really determines who I am today is when I was a handball player, you know, humbling you, of course, a and I was a hammer player, and I became a humble coach. When I was 14, yeah. So I was coaching eight years old kids, and then and I stay as humble coach for more than 1214 years. And that, and I went through the process of becoming a national humble coach for Spain. And that gave me so much perspective, because that’s when I learned how important it was to create teams to nurture teams to have individual goals, collective goals, how do you win? How do you lose how you play, and that was an amazing playground. So I would say that coaching sports, competitive sports is the playground of conflict resolution on the ground. And then the whole corporate wall. Those are my my three big programs.

Achim Nowak  17:52

A word from your sponsor. That’s me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast fourth, act calm, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth acts. Please check it out. And now back to the conversation. Those are three pretty cool playgrounds, Luis the thought I had as you’re talking about them, because I sense your enthusiasm and also sense how each brought different sorts of learning that, but we’re looking at it, you know, in hindsight now, but the question always is, did you enjoy it in a similar way while you’re in it? Or is there a deeper appreciation as you look back?

Luis Gallardo  18:55

No, I really enjoyed I enjoy every second. And yeah, I mean, for some reason, and this is something that I and you know me and we have many friends and we many people that they don’t know what they do in their life. Yeah. They don’t know what is their purpose because they relate purpose to doing a when you relate purpose to be in. Oh my goodness, I’ve been everything and every minute in all those playgrounds. And I enjoy so much and some people gave me so many opportunities and gifts, because actually we don’t need to know all those three playgrounds, then I play or smaller playgrounds in parallel. For example, between corporate and international relations. I was a journalist for eight years.

Achim Nowak  19:49

I have to laugh because you’re such an underachiever.

Luis Gallardo  19:55

Yeah, but you know, being a journalist, you know what it is is exploring is is talking to people? Yeah. So actually what when we talk about the stage I’m in now is so related to what I do as a journalist. For intrapreneur. In this case, my focus was businesses and I was interviewing all the Guru’s in the world on business management, and grocery most counter, Gary Hamel, a Edward de Bono, all the all the number ones a, I had the list. And I was going one by one, interviewing them reading the books, and writing about them. That was a huge playground as well. But the way I remember it is the same way I was living it. I was loving it. I was I still remember when I will want to call a worthy Barnum. Yeah. And I was getting ready for that interview. And I was excited because I read the book, and I was new for me. So I don’t know, for some reason I’m doing always things that are new, that are that are farther to my capabilities. So he’s like, I’m doing things that I don’t know. Yeah. So and then I learned as I do them,

Achim Nowak  21:09

one keyword for this conversation clearly is curiosity, and learning. Many people and us so much more than this. So I don’t want to label you as the happiness guy, because I know there’s much more to your curiosity. But for people who don’t know you and listening, you know, at some point, you helped organize the first major global happiness event here in Miami, it was an extraordinary experience, you have a foundation behind this work, you have organized huge global happiness events all over the world, a combination of virtual and what you call a gorez, live events and cities all over the world. It’s pretty insane to do that kind of stuff. But you have been the leader of that. And as part of it, you’ve had a chance to speak with pretty much every person on the planet who does happiness research, and and adjacent research because it’s connected to all sorts of other deeper spirituality and understanding around life. So I want to jump into that in many different ways. But first thing was there a moment or a period in a period of time when you went? I want to find out more about happiness. I want to find out other research like how did you tap into that?

Luis Gallardo  22:31

Yeah, these are great questions. And, and I’ve been if I contemplate a question, and I think about it, and it all goes back to the thesis that I wrote, for my master’s degree in Lancaster University, I reached out on Instagram. Because after I finished college, I went I did a Master’s an MA on conflict resolution and peace studies. So john, a, john Galton, who is the father, kind of the father of peace studies. A was really my hero. And I used to remember I went to meet him in London, when I was studying in Lancaster. He goes, he’s a Swedish guy. And he came to talk and he I went there to meet him. And what I learned from Joe Joe’s Joe, Joe Congleton is the concept of positive peace. And now we talk about positive psychology. And now we talk about positive many things. But when I learn about the concept of positive piece, I say, oh, there’s another piece, what is this? So I explore that. And my thesis was all about the fulfillment of personal identity, to manage conflict resolution. So I went deep into personal identity, and explore. And actually when you go deep into personal identity, you realize most of it is about the psyche, psychological, and your statical john, and your study, all the psychologies that go into our consciousness, but I was doing but I was doing a master’s in peace studies related to the United Nations. And normally when you think that you are thinking about international law, you are thinking about processes, you are thinking about a regulations, and I went deeper into who we are, and what is our identity. And then I learned from ron paul at peace

Achim Nowak  24:38

but here’s I want to play devil’s advocate. Okay, because I have a conflict resolution background, I’ve done a lot of peace work a positive psychology. For, to me that’s safer language than something as bold as happiness. Because, you know, let me just test this because And when I’ve told people that I’ve been involved with some of their happiness people first thing to say, Well, you can’t be happy all the time. You know, happiness is overrated. You know, I want to focus on other stuff. Like, why is happiness so important? But somehow you went from positive peace to happiness? And I’m sure people say those stuff those things to you, right? So what is it? Why does happiness matter?

Luis Gallardo  25:29

Yeah, and this is, this is where I bring my marketing

Achim Nowak  25:33

a, bring it, please.

Luis Gallardo  25:36

Yeah, because, okay. I go back to the Lloyd. Okay, why? Why did I stay in that position for 12 years, changing the global CEO four times, because I got to the right word. And the right word for that company was risk, person’s reputation. So the only way I was able to get millions and millions of dollars on budget for that company was because I tap into the key word, the key word, we don’t we are averse to risk. And then the positive word is how do we build our reputation. And then when you go deeper into reputation, then you understand that you have to spend money on marketing and communications. So at some point, when I left, all these P is conflict resolution world to get into the corporate world. I got into so much conflict between partners between a staff. And I was an I am a community builder. Because I know how to play with teams. I, I am, I love teamwork. And now I am able we need to see our kids, we love to talk about scenographic. So when you have that in mind, you realize that at the corporate world, cabinas is called satisfaction. Yeah. And engagement. And then you talk about client satisfaction. And then you talk about how engaged you are. And those words, mean nothing.

Achim Nowak  27:20

When you absolutely, I hear them all the time.

Luis Gallardo  27:24

So So I remember that we were creating the one of the biggest partners meetings in the United States for the US partners more than 5000. And we invited and we would create an agenda. And I am I called Tony has from suppose he just passed away. And sorry about that. And he was Delivering Happiness through buying shoes. And then so, so many other companies trying to play with the word happiness. And I went deeper into what’s going on here. Yeah. And I say, Well, actually, there’s a lot going on. Yeah, I discovered that there was a lot going on. And I was 2005 2006. And at that point, I met a Jamie Elan. The end was the catalyst to create the happiness day, a much 20th.

Achim Nowak  28:24

A, what? Would you explain what it is? Because not every listener will know what you just referenced?

Luis Gallardo  28:30

Yeah, actually, happiness day, international happiness Day is a former kind of one of those days at the United Nations establish, to remember and celebrate things. So the other day for everything, but there were no that they for happiness. Amazingly. So actually, I still remember I was at the Lloyd and I was creating systems because in my mind, I love system thinking. And, and this guy, Jamie was like, all about being an orphan a from India and say, well, we need we need to create something that actually works for the world. And at some point, what the United Nations does is that when you have three four countries supporting one resolution, then it goes into the assembly before there is a lot of lobby. And if countries agree, then you create a resolution. So there are now two resolutions, one that states happiness as the International Day, March 20, and a second super important resolution. And this is now kind of the seed for the happiness foundation to support and basically become a steward, which is creating new paradigms for human progress and happiness and build on wellbeing being the essence of that. So imagine I mean having those solutions give a lot of of opportunity and power, so many people. So basically, I started connecting dots. But the reality is that I use my marketing hat and say, okay, who is the word? What is the word they they will need now. And I went through many of them. And one of them could be positive pace. It could be, it could be joy, it could be blades, it could be compassion, there are so many. But I say no, actually, it’s governance. Because this is ultimately an only a universal world. Right tested with all my network. So I went back to my network, a, a, no, just the law, but actually work out I work to further up and Jana ruhigen, there is a huge network there a of marketing and public relations people and I check, okay, what is this word? Why, why is this universal. And we went through a route, and we understood that actually, everybody understands, because not everybody understand the same thing. But everybody knows that, in the end, we want to achieve a state of well being, we want to achieve a state that is better, or be better than it was before. And I and I call these happiness, and then we explain it. But and that’s why now there is a Science of Happiness is a whole bunch of a researchers around the world completely committed to the science of well being. So then when you see that is like, Okay, this is serious. So how do you how do you evolve this? And how do we how do we get to the key word that I feel the world and smarts,

Achim Nowak  31:46

so you got serious about happiness? I love that. And I, it really makes sense when you said that, that on a cellular level, we all know what it is, even if we don’t experience it enough. But lay on top of the fact that once you embarked on this journey, you you just mentioned all the research. There’s lots of thinkers, there’s lots of research lots of explanations about why we are or aren’t happy. And want to ask a really unfair question. But if you think of a conversation or two with one of these famous researchers, and ago, when she said that all when he said that, that really clicked with me, like what are the one or two conversations that stand out? And I know you’re immediately excluding others. And it’s not a fair question, but I’m curious. This very moment. It’s evening time in Spain, like what comes to mind?

Luis Gallardo  32:46

Yeah, one word with Deepak Chopra. He was in a really simple way. They find joy and happiness. And he said, basically, Joy is a state of being, happiness is a state of mind. Many people don’t agree with that. But it’s very helped so much to really understand that happiness is in your mind. But actually, then you have to define mind. Okay, and then we get into the cellular level of mind. and energetic level of mind, you are talking about the universe as well. So in the end, what I learned from that conversation is that we are we just have to put words to faint to things that don’t have the words. Yeah, there are states. A is energy. So it’s so difficult to define all this space. That is why I’m so excited about this space. Because he’s difficult, because he’s like, is very, very complex. Because his his energy and how can you call energy is so difficult, but I like though I like a lot because he helps a lot of people to define happiness and joy as a states because then Okay, Visa state, how do I achieve that state? And then you can have practical tools. So I think that conversation was beautiful.

Achim Nowak  34:24

Well, and I’m thinking of, it’s a stereotype on the side anyway, sometimes. It’s beautiful to just live in the question without having to find the answer. But the question alone helps us experience new thoughts, new states, new ways of being and that journey never ever ends, right?

Luis Gallardo  34:46

Yes, it that’s, that’s a that’s beautiful. And that reminds me another conversation in this guy. Go for it. We the scientist Sonja Lyubomirsky, maybe only knows her Say

Achim Nowak  35:00

the name again slowly.

Luis Gallardo  35:01

Sonja Lyubomirsky,

Achim Nowak  35:03

Sonja Lyubomirsky, as I remember hearing her speak. Yes.

Luis Gallardo  35:07

So basically, si si came out with these pi. Mm hmm. Where she says that a happiness is determine 50% by our genes 40% by our behavior and 10% by the conditions around us. And that pie has created so much debate,

Achim Nowak  35:32

it pissed off a lot of people that pie. Yes.

Luis Gallardo  35:37

But you know, I mean, at some point, you have to put this thing on the ground and say, Okay, let’s debate, let’s debate. But now that I’ve been talking a lot to genetics, a and. And actually people who get into the plasticity of our genoma everywhere is this plastic, this change all the time is called epigenetics is called. You can, you can actually breehn whatever genes you want to your a to your to your future family, because you can change it while you are living. That means



Luis Gallardo  36:22

maybe it’s not 50%. Maybe it’s 20%. Because then your behavior can be much, much.

Achim Nowak  36:29

I think you’re just rewriting Sonja Lyubomirsky here.

Luis Gallardo  36:34

Yeah, but you know, she’s the one that wrote out. I mean, the beauty of being heavy. And then the last, the last research is about, don’t chase happiness, because he’s gonna make you very unhappy. Yeah. So this is the beauty of these spaces, like everybody’s building it. And this is another playground, because this area is playing.

Achim Nowak  36:56

Well, I hope that as I’m listening to you, and our listeners hear you, your curiosity is infectious. I want to jump for a moment to you, you painted your lifestyle with Deloitte beautifully. For us. My sense of your current lifestyle is this. And if I’m wrong, please correct me. I happen to know your lovely wife, Maggie, you have two beautiful sons. You live outside of Miami, but I see you as this. As you use the language community builder. Sometimes you do it virtually. But I see you flipping all over the world with a little impaired because of COVID. But you fly around, you create stuff, you create events, you bring people together, you talk to luminaries in the space. You do this without the fatter Lloyd paycheck. So it’s just just the mechanics of it are different. And my hunches on the surface, that looks just amazing. But I also think you probably couldn’t do it without the support and indulgence of your family to allow you to, to play in this new playground. So give me a sense of how your family structure and all of that connects to you being this global Explorer.

Luis Gallardo  38:18

Oh, wow. Yes, well, I’ve been married to my wife for 25 years. And something that a that is coming with both of us together is that I mean, we love each other, but we give us a space. I mean, we trust each other so much. That we are giving we are giving each other space all the time. And in this case, something so interesting is that if I think of people who are humble SP to making a difference does Maggie so actually see doesn’t have to talk about it. Ya know? And, and that’s so interesting, because then we talked to so many people who want to talk about fence. And he’s so relaxing, actually being with somebody who is already and doesn’t have to talk about anything. Because he’s already there. So I love it. And he’s like, I always feel like I’m a Kate flying. And I have a Do you know these kind of you have a tissue? A small really thin Yeah. And somebody is they need you sometimes a you have to come back. You have to come back. So I think that thanks to that relationship, I feel that everybody’s growing. And now our kids are learning from it. I’d like to see if I can share this week. It’s been so hard because my father passed away It was really hard. But you know, it’s been so yeah.

Achim Nowak  40:03

May I just for our listeners say your father passed last week. So it’s very recent. And before you go, I go into what you’re going to say is give us a little bit of context about his age and how, how quickly he passed.

Luis Gallardo  40:23

Yeah, he he was 75. And he was diagnosed with with a cancer, but at the hospital as he were getting treated men, he got COVID. Yeah. And in three months, he basically pass it. But the last 15 days were especially important because my mother was allowed to be with him. And then my brother, and I were allowed to be with him the last days. But you know, the process of death as part of life, this is one of my key learnings. The second one we were getting, because we were in the room, so many messages from people, and we were reading those messages to him. And I was, oh my goodness, I was so amazed when I was reading my kids messages. They were incredible. Yeah. So deep. And, and that’s the moment where you realize that somebody is gonna die, and you have the time to say, by the time to share what you feel with that person that really makes you change your life. So in the whole process of going through this situation, brought my kids into this space. And suddenly, you say, well, I’ve been doing this now for six years, they don’t care, they don’t even want me to tell them about this, our happiness, like, what the hell is this, I mean, people want something different is like, okay, and suddenly they start sending these messages that are all about connecting to the energy are all about a unknown state of a living with your soul. A we’re talking about things that I mean, few kids can talk about unless they really, really wet it. So it was an eye opener, and that’s kind of the my relationship now with my wife and my kids is like, it’s incredible. I’m learning so much. A and I feel very much supported.

Achim Nowak  42:37

Well, as you’re describing your kids, I was thinking, if you and Maggie are the Kate’s who gave each other space to fly, but know when to bring each other back. Even if you don’t talk about it, that’s what your sons are learning from you, too. You know, and that’s, that’s what you’re embodying for your children. I’m getting emotional Nappa it’s a beautiful thing. We are recording this conversation the night before you bury your dad. The burial sounds really special and beautiful to me with a lot of thought put into it. Since we’re talking about the journey of life and happiness and transitions. What have you planned for tomorrow?

Luis Gallardo  43:27

Yeah, actually, this is these when my mother’s actually a, the session is beautiful, we are going to go to a forest in the middle of Spain. A interlevel. And it’s a forest of basically you are planting trees. And, and the goal is that that forest is going to grow. And it’s going to a he’s gonna be the the force of a remember, so you remember. And then I love I love the concept of remembering who we are. Because there’s not understanding who we are remembering. And when you remember who you are, you’re in another state as well. So actually what we are going to be doing tomorrow is is is growing that and, and you’re gonna be really, really family oriented. ceremony and I feel really, really powerful Iran and unempowered now thinking that we are going to be planting that we are going to be seeing green growing of our out of these ashes. And that that’s going to be a healing moment. is something that I really love is the concept of memories link to inspiration. Normally, especially in Christian traditions, you get into the memory. It’s like, Okay, what do you remember? And then you link that, during that to God. So we are orphans in many ways. And no, I like the way that you have a memory of somebody. In this case, everybody’s gonna have a memory of a time that they were with my father. And my invitation for everybody is that transformed that memory into an inspiration? What does it inspire you? And then what are you going to do with this inspiration? So moving from memories, the inspiration I feel is a healing is a healing a action? And if and I think that’s, that’s the way we want to reframing that if you know,

Achim Nowak  45:42

was Spoken like a true citizen of the world. Luis, thank you. I want to leave you with just one more question. And I want to ask you, I’m gonna give you two options for answering it. I always like to ask, based on what you now what you know now about life, and possibly in the middle of, you know, sending your dad off tomorrow. What words of wisdom would you say to young Louise? The other option would be is what words of wisdom would you say to your two sons, whether they listen or not as a whole thing?Right?

Luis Gallardo  46:22

Well, in this case, do you mind if I choose the words of Rumi

Achim Nowak  46:25

know Rumi forever. So please,

Luis Gallardo  46:29

because he has a poem is called Old 911. And he’s so beautiful. And so I can read it because actually, these are one we’re gonna be reading tomorrow. He says, on the day I die, when I’m being carried toward the grave, don’t wait. Don’t say he’s gone, he’s gone. This has nothing to do with going away. The sun sets and the moon sets, but they are not gone. There is a coming together. The Tom likes, looks like a prison. But it’s really, really is into Union. The human see goes down in the ground, like a bucket into the will for Joseph Joseph as it grows, and camps are full of Sam. And imagine beauty. Your mouth closes here, and immediately opens with a shout of joy there.

Achim Nowak  47:41

Thank you for that. If our listeners want to find out more about you, where’s the best place for them to find you in and in the ether?

Luis Gallardo  47:54

Well, they can go to my personal web page  or

Achim Nowak  48:15

I’ll make sure that that’s on the My fourth act website as well. Thank you for the honor of this conversation. And may there be lots of open space tomorrow and lots of healing. Thank you.

Luis Gallardo  48:30

Thank you so much again.

Achim Nowak  48:35

Like what you heard, please go to my fourth act calm and subscribe to receive my updates on upcoming episodes. Please also subscribe to us on the platform of your choice. Rate us give us a review and let us all create some magical fourth acts together. Ciao


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