THE IMPERFECT SHOW NOTES
To help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts, here are our show notes.
These show notes come via the Otter.ai service. The transcription is imperfect. But hopefully, it’s close enough – even with the errors – to give those who aren’t able or inclined to learn from audio interviews a way to participate.
Leeatt Rothschild 00:00
It was a cold day in Chicago, a typical December right before the holidays. Yeah. And our office was riddled with traditional corporate gifts. So tins of popcorn, baskets of cookies and treats. And it dawned on me as we of course, we were enjoying all these, you know, these gifts and the food. But it just became so clear to me that there was no aspect of doing good or social impact in the gifts themselves. And it just so happened that I was exposed to, specifically a social enterprise. So an organization in Detroit that was making these delicious granola bites, while providing you can think of it as like an after school program for youth in Detroit to teach them you know, marketing skills and accounting skills and critical thinking skills and negotiation skills. And I just thought, Wow, this product is amazing, both because it tastes great, but also because there’s this powerful story of doing good baked into the actual production of this product.
Achim Nowak 01:05
Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your FOURTH ACT? I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected FOURTH ACTS, listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening on. Let’s get started. I am so happy to welcome Leeatt Rothschild , to the my fourth act podcast. Leeatt is a citizen of the world and the founder of pact with purpose. An agency that champions the act of doing good into the gifts we choose to give. Packed with purpose was born out of layettes desire to create social impact while recognizing the importance of gifting in fostering meaningful relationships. Layouts work is informed by her experience as a Peace Corps volunteer and social impact consultant. Since we are entering this season of gift giving, I cannot think of a more perfect conversation partner than Leeatt. So Leeatt, welcome.
Leeatt Rothschild 02:23
Thank you so much for having me. I came I appreciate it. Oh, it’s
Achim Nowak 02:27
so my pleasure. And we’re going to talk a lot about gifts and what you do with packed with purpose. But before we go there, there’s a question I asked at the start of each podcast because I’m curious about how we ended up where we end up. So when we when you were a young girl, or a teenager, chances you weren’t thinking about PAC with purpose. So what did you think you wanted to do or be as a grown up?
Leeatt Rothschild 02:52
When people ask me that question, maybe unlike some kids, I didn’t aspire to be a teacher or a lawyer or, you know, a profession, a doctor that is defined and well stated, I think that as a kid, I wanted to do what I wanted to do without being encumbered by what my parents or society or my classmates might have defined as a profession. Yeah, so my, my truthful answer is, I didn’t have a particular profession. But I knew that I was creative and had a strong imagination. And I wanted to pursue what I wanted, irrespective of what others might have thought was appropriate.
Achim Nowak 03:35
As I think of that ends, I think if my parents, because that sounds great to me, but I would imagine at some point, once you’re in 11th, or 12th, grade, you know, mom and dad want to know where you’re going to go to college? And what are you going to study? Right? Those conversations happen, and how did you navigate those?
Leeatt Rothschild 03:52
So it’s a great question. My parents, I give them a lot of credit, I think that they, they had trust in me and in their children that we had a good compass, a strong moral compass, but also a strong work ethic. So they were never concerned. They definitely didn’t outwardly display that. But I think that truthfully, they were never concerned that I wasn’t going to pursue something of excellence for me. I ended up studying cognitive psychology undergrad, I think that that carries through with my profession day to day, it was a subject matter that I was interested in. But at no point did my parents ever say, Well, how are you going to take this and apply it or they never thought in a linear manner in terms of you’re studying psychology, therefore, you should be or we assume you will go down the path to be a psychologist.
Achim Nowak 04:43
Well, you clearly have very enlightened parents, Leah, that’s a wonderful way can it here. I introduced you as a citizen of the world and I identify as that myself and we both have, I would say multicultural. Old backgrounds and you’re American born, your parents came here from Israel. So you have strong connection to Israel as well. And I believe we live in a world where the identities that you and I have are increasingly important. And since you just talked about what shaped you, how did that background shape you and your connection to Yes, I’m American, but my family’s strongly connected to Israel. Could you talk about that a
Leeatt Rothschild 05:28
little bit? Yeah. I think that the way that I grew up in what I experienced at home, cultivated my appreciation for cultural differences. And I’ll highlight just a few different experiences to bring that to life. When we were younger, my parents had a robust appreciation for travel in for adventures. And when we were younger, we didn’t necessarily have money to travel as a family of five to different countries. So we drove from the Midwest, all the way down to Puerto Vallarta, Mexico, which is a three day drive. And that’s probably not what the average American family does. But it was a beautiful experience. And that was part of appreciating the Mexican culture in the food and just witnessing, you know, what younger children were doing, maybe selling on the street, compared to myself that was on vacation from school. So really, you know, that opened my eyes up to new experiences. A totally different example would be as a Peace Corps volunteer in rural Paraguay, I lived with a family and lived in a very rural setting, about two hours away from the Capitol. And here I was exposed to an indigenous language, a totally new way of thinking, a country that had the longest dictatorship in its history. And obviously, living in that environment for two years, very closely with my community and with a family just opened my eyes to all of these new experiences. There’s a ton of different examples like those, but just as two different examples in the course of my life, that opened me up to cultural differences into appreciating different people’s perspective. And that that makes for a richer life.
Achim Nowak 07:17
I totally get that. And when I think of the Peace Corps, and you’re not the first guest I’ve had on my podcast who did was in the Peace Corps. I think of it as the kind of thing that people did in the 60s in the 70s. And I know you’re not of that generation, your elite? What was the inner voice or the inner calling that said, I want to do two years in the Peace Corps, just just where did that come from, for you, Juliet.
Leeatt Rothschild 07:47
So I think there were a few factors that drove me or really pulled me to want to join the Peace Corps. One, there was a high quotient of adventure. So I’m a risk taker, I like adventure. I love roller coasters, you know, to give you a sense, so joining the Peace Corps, I knew that it was going to be filled with adventure. And the unknown is not something that scares me, but it’s something that I am drawn towards. Beyond that, I really was interested in the idea of giving back, right, so as a Peace Corps volunteer for two years, you are giving back, you are giving to a community through your skills through your listening through your application of whatever professional knowledge or skill you have, to a community to bed better than however that might be whether it’s in terms of education, agroforestry business, it doesn’t matter what the application is, you’re using your skills and your experience to to give back or contribute to a community. And then I’d say the other one was language writing cultural appreciation. So I love learning languages. And there’s nothing like being thrown into a rural community where no one speaks English, to force you to have to learn a new language and with that, a new perspective. And it I would say those three aspects were, it was hard to not say yes to the Peace Corps for me.
Achim Nowak 09:10
I’m somebody who also loves adventure. But I’m terrified a roller coaster. So that’s not my Yeah. You described so beautifully, if I can get getting used the word, the deeper purpose of the work you were doing in Paraguay, and in my mind, that’s very much connected to what you’re doing now with PAC with purpose. And in between you did you had two jobs which at least on paper, first of all, they look wonderful, but more traditional marketing client engagement jobs. You were director of marketing for engagement. For Rosetta, you were the VP of advisory services for an organization called Mission measurement. Before we get to PAC with purpose, if you just in every experience There are reasons where we go, this is why I’ve loved doing this. And the reason moments where you go, I can’t stand this lady to get out of here. Would you maybe paint both extremes? Because these clearly got you to where you are today. Without those experiences, you probably would not be doing pack with purpose. So can you tell us some stories of fans out there?
Leeatt Rothschild 10:21
Yeah, and let me I’m going to give the prelude to Rosetta, just so that it provides the right context. I after I was a Peace Corps volunteer, I worked in the area of market research. And then I went into business school. And I got both my MBA and a master’s in international studies. So there was a an international focus there. Coming out of my graduate program, I wanted to work in marketing, I knew I was attracted to the way I looked at marketing in terms of the power of storytelling, understanding consumer psychology and behavior, using data to connect a product or service to your end customer, or influencers in the decision to use or buy that product or service. So that was the mindset that I had. And that’s why I went to Rosetta, which was a digital agency. It then became acquired and was part of the broader publicists group. And that was an amazing experience where I was able to apply my marketing skills, and really learn from other executives in the marketing world who were my clients, but also, you know, partners within the company, and my managers and peers who were steeped in market research and marketing experience, and really learn how companies think about marketing their products and services, using primary research and secondary research to inform how a product goes to market, it was an amazing opportunity. So I definitely learned a lot there. And then the other example that you gave was admission measurement, you were following Rosetta, where I basically learned a lot about market research and marketing. I then took those skills and brought it back to the world of social impact. And I said, How can I use these skills to support the growth of social impact or corporate social responsibility? at that company, I was advising Chief Sustainability officers and marketing executives, helping them figure out how to invest or utilize their CSR or their corporate social responsibility dollars to have a business return, and also a societal impact. Now, it’s commonplace to hear words like purpose or mission, yeah, 10 plus years ago, individuals and companies were talking a lot about corporate social responsibility or corporate citizenship. And I was working with the leaders of those departments, helping them figure out how to use those dollars to do good both for the business and for society.
Achim Nowak 13:02
What I heard from you right now, you did a wonderful job of describing the purpose of where you’re working in those two places, but also the inner satisfaction of what you were doing. And you chose to move on from Mission measurement and do other stuff. So I’m very curious at what point because we all have different reasons for moving on. Because I talk to people all the time, who have a great job, they love it, and they could stay there for the rest of their lives. And they would get promoted, they would do other things, but something within you. And if I misrepresent you, correct me said, No, I have other ideas. And I want to do my own thing. Would you would you describe because our listeners in the fourth act often is how do I go from one stage of life to another? And you made a big jump to do your own thing? Could you describe their process for us?
Leeatt Rothschild 13:49
Yeah, so let me I’m gonna take you back to the exact day when I first had the idea. Yeah, for me if I wasn’t, I didn’t think I was going to be an entrepreneur. I didn’t dream of owning my own business. But the idea of tech with purpose hit me. And then it was so compelling that I couldn’t think of anything else. But starting this company. You know, the story goes, it was a cold day in Chicago, a typical December right before the holidays. Yeah. And our office was riddled with traditional corporate gifts. So tins of popcorn, baskets of cookies and treats. And it dawned on me as we of course, we were enjoying all these, you know, these gifts and the food, but it just became so clear to me that there was no aspect of doing good or social impact in the gifts themselves. And it just so happened that I was exposed to specifically a social enterprise. So an organization in Detroit that was making these delicious granola bites, while providing you can think of it as like an after school program for youth in Detroit to teach them you know, marketing skills and accounting skills and Critical Thinking skills and negotiation skills, and I just thought, Wow, this product is amazing, both because it tastes great, but also because there’s this powerful story of doing good baked into the actual production of this product. And so that’s when I had my aha moment. And I said, I know that there’s other companies, other social enterprises, like this one, what if I were to put those products together in a beautifully designed gift box? And what if I told that story behind each of the products? Maybe even better than those organizations are doing it themselves? Wouldn’t that be a compelling gift? And wouldn’t there be corporate buyers that would be excited to buy this? And then recipients that would feel like, you know, wow, this is a really memorable gift.
Achim Nowak 15:47
I hear the the marketer in you in the best kind of way you tell the story so beautifully. And And as I’m listening to you, I go, Well, of course, that’s a no brainer, right? It just makes sense. But also heard you say, which is I couldn’t stop thinking about it. And that often is a good sign that we need to do something. Yeah. And as somebody I’m this year alone, put entrepreneur, I’m on my second business limb and reshaping it again. I remember how daunting it was to start my first enterprise. And many of our listeners may go I have ideas just like liegt does. And but how did you actually start? Did you establish a business entity? Did you hire people? Did you just start putting out feelers to see if anybody thought it was a good idea? Like how did you actually step into this wonderful venture called PAC with purpose?
Leeatt Rothschild 16:43
Yes, the first thing I did, this is an expression that a fellow female entrepreneur here in Chicago I mentioned, which was to dream out loud. So the first thing I did was dream out loud. And as soon as I started dreaming out loud, meaning I was talking about this thing that later would become packed with purpose, I would get people’s feedback, and I would hear some of their questions. And so that just, you know, it’s like a snowball effect. I drempt out loud. What did I actually do beyond that, for my daughter’s first birthday party, I took the idea of a goodie bag, and I sort of flipped it on its head. And I created the first, what I oftentimes say is the first bad version of tech with purpose. But my designer affectionately told me, I should call it a low fidelity prototype. So it was the first low fidelity prototype of factors purpose. And I gave that to all of the guests, which were individuals like myself, that might be decision makers with regards to gifts for their companies or organizations, or they might be the influencers of that decision. I gave them that first practice purpose gift. And I said, I’m going to follow up with a 10 minute call, I’d love to hear your thoughts. And so that was basically low budget, or no budget scrappy market research, I got their feedback. A few months later, as I started thinking about this, I knew that this was my opportunity to actually create a business around this, that there was enough momentum, the market was huge. In terms of the size of the market, it used to be referred to as $125 billion market. Now, there’s new research that shows that the corporate gifting market is $240 billion. So it’s a huge opportunity. And no one was doing anything like this. And I knew that companies and people were becoming more focused on doing good. So fast forward to June, I actually established the company name, I, you know, created all of the the legal entities design mark. And then I knew that this was my opportunity to try, it might have failed, but I was at least going to try it. And I quit my job. I happened to be seven months pregnant with twins. So it was either the best time to quit my job and just start my business at the worst time. But I just there was so much momentum, there was no opportunity for me to put this down and just continue with quote, unquote, my day job, I was consumed with this idea. And you know, when people talk about like, you have passion for an idea, I literally couldn’t stop thinking about it. And so I have to manifest all that thought into what would become this business.
Achim Nowak 19:24
Word from your sponsor. That’s me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast www.my Fourth active.com You will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth acts. Please check it out. And now back to the conversation we’ll get back to the two In a moment, but before we’re recording this conversation that the week before the American Thanksgiving, I’m releasing the episode on us Thanksgiving Day. So where my thoughts are going, you know, this is the gift giving season. And if you could just give us a snapshot of the sort of corporate giving that you’re a part of between now and Christmas, and the sort of gifts that people are giving who have partnered with your organization. Give us a snapshot? Sure.
Leeatt Rothschild 20:30
Yeah. So packed with purpose is that corporate gifting company with a social mission, and the social mission comes in because the products that we include in our gifts do good, I’ll give you a few examples of that. We might have granola made by women who are part of a workforce development program in Washington, DC, who might have been homeless or survivors of abuse, their learning scales so that they can get back on their feet financially, we might include wood in journals that are made out of sustainably harvested wood that also contribute to a movement to reforest the globe. Those are two totally different examples. But in each one, you can see that there’s an element of giving back, whether it is related to health, whether it’s related to youth development, to women in diverse entrepreneurs, to workforce development, or sustainability. There’s six different impact areas that our guests contribute to. And it’s powered by the actual products in our gift. And what we believe in that we believe this because this is what our customers say, and the recipients of our gift, say, what makes our gifts stand out is the stories that we get to tell that we are humbled to tell about the products, and how those products are impacting people, communities in the environment.
Achim Nowak 21:54
How do you source the gifts or the organizations or the agencies who all have an incredibly noble purpose? And you have a noble purpose? And you are sort of amplifying your shared purpose by finding each other? That do you have to source them? Like what’s your process?
Leeatt Rothschild 22:11
Yeah, great question. And let me just say, right, if I, if I rewind five years, the first tech was purpose gifts had six views, six products, that was very simple compared to now where we have hundreds of views, and over 100 impact partners that are the purveyors of the products in our game. So there’s a few ways in which we discover and bet the impact partners and their products in our game. A lot of it is us doing our own research, whether it is assisting shows, right attending shows, or conferences, some of it is through desk research. So specifically looking for products that might be more savory, or more sweet, or have a longer shelf life or are from different regions in the state are focused on a particular impact area. So we do a lot of our own research, we have a very thorough vetting process where we’re looking at who is behind the product, what type of impact do they create, we test out all of our products, which is a wonderful experience, especially when there’s a lot of treats or food being sent to us. But aside from that, we now also, as our brand has grown, and folks have learned about us, we also get a number of inbound inquiries, where potential impact partners reach out to us to tell us about their amazing soap, or pajamas, or brownies or cookies. And that’s a wonderful way for us to get to know potential impact partners that are not on our radar.
Achim Nowak 23:47
I just I’m listening to your thinking like what a wonderful brand to have. And what a wonderful vehicle of doing good in the world. And because the act of giving a gift in and of itself. It’s a wonderful thing. And if we add this other layer to it, that you do see your work, what a beautiful thing you’re doing. Well, I want to go back to I was struck, I’m thinking of Thanksgiving, and I was struck by the phrase he said I couldn’t stop thinking about it. He said your passion is evident. I know when I started as an entrepreneur, and I was not a natural entrepreneur. And I think I’m a good one. Now. One of my fears was, and I believe you’re a mother of four children is four correct and you have a husband. So my big fear was is that my business will consume me. And that will take over my life. And that’s a fear of many people. How did you juggle that? I mean, you’re a mom, you mentioned being pregnant with twins. How is how do you make all of this work?
Leeatt Rothschild 24:50
Yeah, well, so I think that for everyone, the most important thing is for everyone to know who they are. Right like who what is their personality. So I like to plan, but I don’t plan so much that I become fearful of what may occur. And that’s important to share. Because in that’s why I also mentioned when I started pact with purpose, we had six products fuse, right? There were six products, six impact partners. Now we’ve got, you know, hundreds. And so I think one of the aspects that has benefited me is thinking enough steps ahead, but not so much that I become paralyzed with the unknown or paralyzed by thinking about all of this complexity that will unfold. So that’s maybe the philosophical answer to your question.
Achim Nowak 25:39
When what’s the first what’s the practical answer?
Leeatt Rothschild 25:42
Right. So and I think both of them are important. The practical aspect is, it’s a balancing act. And every single day is a balancing act, and every hour, and for example, yesterday, during what would have been an inventory call, I was at the pharmacy with my twin boys who were getting their COVID vaccine, and I have help at home to enable me to participate in events, or to do a podcast and know that I won’t be interrupted. And other times I am interrupted. And I think the benefit of the pandemic is, people don’t have to feel like they’re standing behind a facade of a perfect life. Life is messy. Kids get sick, you have competing priorities. And at least within my company, and I think our partners and our clients, we are much more empathetic. And people just feel that they can be their authentic self. It’s not always perfect. You’re always balancing whatever it might be, whether it’s children, or caring for your aging parents, or dealing with competing priorities at home and work. Yeah.
Achim Nowak 26:50
I appreciate the clarity with which you express that thank you, Leeatt. I’m gonna ask a question, I think I know how you might answer it, but I, it gives you in the middle of something beautiful that you created, and life continues to unfold, and new things happen, and new dreams appear. And you might dream out aloud some more and, and you have four children, all of these things. So just for today, if you could, if you could wave a magic wand and say, If I could have a little more of this, and a little less of that. What comes to mind.
Leeatt Rothschild 27:31
So I think that let me start off by saying I feel so fortunate, I feel fortunate that I’m what I do every day is what I love, it happens to be that I’m a founder CEO, it happens to be that I am living my dream of starting a company that is doing well, that is growing, that has team members that deeply believe in their quote, unquote, work and collaborating with one another. So I feel so fortunate to be doing that. And to have health on my side. Two years ago, my dad was diagnosed with cancer, and it was a really rough year. So I very much feel grounded with just how fortunate I am. And so if it was a little bit more of this and a little bit less of that, to be honest, I feel like I’m at the peak, right? Like it is so wonderful. So what does a little bit more and a little bit less look like for me, probably a little bit more growing the company in the areas that I want to see it flourish, a little bit less of being mired in the day to day of maybe inventory management or updating our techniques. But to be honest, that, you know, that’s all on the margin. Like it almost doesn’t even matter because what I do day today is so fulfilling. Yeah.
Achim Nowak 29:00
Since we’re applicants, we’re I mean, those are classic entrepreneurial wishes that you just articulated. Any entrepreneur can relate to. What have you learned about yourself as a as a woman and as a leader who started her own business because we it tends to change us. And it tends to change how we show up and how we see the world what did Leeatt learn about herself in this purpose of doing your own venture?
Leeatt Rothschild 29:31
Okay, so there’s two thoughts that immediately come to mind. One is how important it is to ask for help to ask for outside perspective, to ask for someone else to share their experience and how they’ve dealt with something. And that sometimes it just corroborate a hunch you already have. Sometimes it presents a whole new way of dealing with a problem or a new way to problem solve. So that’s one aspect. And then the other illumination is not so much a change in behavior, but more so just a self reflection, which is that I recognize that I have a greater appetite, or I can withstand emotional distress, right. So as an entrepreneur, there’s so many uncertainties, and the business that I run happens to be highly seasonal, which brings its own set of challenges and opportunities. But just knowing that my appetite for ambiguity and maybe emotional distress is higher, it means that I, I’m aware of why I might have an appetite for certain risks or for the type of growth that this business, you know, can have and will have compared to someone else. And also just thinking about that in the context of motivating my team in leading my team, and partnering with other, you know, outside organizations, with our clients with our impact partners.
Achim Nowak 31:04
And I would venture to guess, since you self identified as an adventurer and risk taker early in the conversation that that part of you probably comes in really handy, even though it plays out in a different way right now and on a different scale.
Leeatt Rothschild 31:19
Absolutely. And you know, and even within myself, there’s areas where I take big risks. And then there’s other areas where I do things in a more measured way. So making sure that we can fulfill every order as it was placed, right. So sending the right gift to the right person with the right message at the right time. At the end of the day, we can’t create any social impact if the logistics, and the operations of our business aren’t perfect. So I have, I hold myself and my team to a really high level of excellence. And so all of that has to be at 100%. And so that means that the growth while you know, we’ve been fortunate to see amazing growth, still maybe compared to someone else, has been more measured, because I wanted to ensure that all of the fulfillment and the logistics and the operations, were at 100%. Because we can’t fail our customers. And if we fail our customers, we can’t even focus on the amazing aspect of social good that our guests create.
Achim Nowak 32:24
I know a lot of dreamers who don’t know how to execute, and I’m hearing you’re saying is dreaming without execution has no end, right. So I that’s beautiful clarity as well. Based on what you know, now, Leah, if you had a chance to whisper into the ears of younger Leeatt and say, and share some words of wisdom not not to change the trajectory of our life, but just saying this is something as a more mature person I have learned, what would you say to her,
Leeatt Rothschild 32:54
I would probably say, Trust yourself, trust your gut, the fact that you’re doing is different is okay, the fact that you’re thinking about this, in a different way is good. And if you really believe in yourself, during whatever juncture of uncertainty, you will prevail, and you will come out on top. Within everyone’s story and everyone success, there’s still, you know, periods and crossroads where you have doubt or you’re, you’re uncertain. And so, you know, even though I set out, I’m a risk taker, and you know, I believed in myself to take this chance, and I dreamed out loud, there’s still micro steps along the way, where the faster and the better you can say, It’s okay, if this is different, it’s okay. If others don’t see it, you understand where you’re going. So just keep charging forward and do that with, with poise. And you’ll get to where you want to be.
Achim Nowak 33:56
Thank you for that. As we get ready to wrap up. Is there anything else you would want our listeners to know about packed with purpose that maybe we haven’t talked about? Because I didn’t ask the question, what else would you want them to know?
Leeatt Rothschild 34:10
Well, we are humbled to work with all of our clients and our customers. We have 100 or so curated gifts on our website. With many of our corporate clients, we can add company logos, either to our gift box or the gift message, which our clients really appreciate when they want to add a more personalized touch to the gift. We can also include branded products and our guests. It’s wonderful for us to work with our clients to create a really personalized and socially conscious experience with their companies our onboarding new employees, or companies want to thank clients for another year of business, or companies want to create a really unique event and provide a gift to really breakthrough, like the virtual experience. So whatever people’s needs are, we love partnering with our clients. And we love helping our clients send gifts that transcend even what they thought was possible in terms of embedding good into the gifting experience that they are creating.
Achim Nowak 35:21
I want to thank you for a conversation that for me, as your conversation partner beautifully emerged, the tactical and the personal, that we walked that line beautifully. So thank you for that. And for our listeners who want to learn more about PAC with purpose, the website I believe is packed with purpose dot gifts. Is that correct? That’s correct. That’s correct with purpose dot gifts. And you can learn more. And thank you again for the gift of this conversation. With you.
Leeatt Rothschild 35:52
I came thank you so much for having me. It was wonderful to speak with you.
Achim Nowak 35:57
Bye for now. Thank you like what you heard, please go to my fourth act.com And subscribe to receive my updates on upcoming episodes. Please also subscribe to us on the platform of your choice. Rate us give us a review and let us all create some magical fourth acts together. Ciao