THE IMPERFECT SHOW NOTES

To help make this podcast more accessible to those who are hearing impaired or those who like to read rather than listen to podcasts, here are our show notes.

These show notes come via the Otter.ai service. The transcription is imperfect. But hopefully, it’s close enough – even with the errors – to give those who aren’t able or inclined to learn from audio interviews a way to participate.

Mike Trupiano  00:00

Things started feeling very repetitious. I wonder if that’s something you feel. Sometimes I wonder if that’s something you feel when you’re saying your 90s. And you’ve, you’ve seen it all you’ve done and it just felt like the thrill is gone.

Achim Nowak  00:16

You are prematurely in your lane. Is that what you’re saying?

Mike Trupiano  00:21

Well, that feeling of I’ve done all this. Yeah, you know, I’ve been in this shop. I’ve been to this museum, it’s not a thrill to go to the mat anymore to go to MOMA.

Achim Nowak  00:35

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach, and host of the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your FOURTH ACT? I have conversations with exceptional humans, who have created bold and unexpected FOURTH ACTS, listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you are listening on. Let’s get started. I am just delighted to welcome Mike to piano to the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. Mike is a comic actor from the United States who now resides in Berlin, Germany. He is a celebrated storyteller, writer, storytelling teacher, a voice over artist, and the creator and host of the just launched podcast secret Sun, which is an Adam Adam T podcast about searching identity and secrets. Welcome, Mike. I owe him as I read the last word searching identity and secrets. No, I have not been adopted. But I could immediately think about how relevant those three words are to my own journey in life. And I think that’s part of the gift of what you’re doing with your podcast. I also want to just be transparent and say that you and I know each other outside of this podcast, I think of you as a friend. And it’s sort of a double gift for me to have this conversation. And I’m going to ask some questions to which even though you’re a friend, I seriously don’t have the answer to like my first one. When you were a little boy, you’re a teenager growing up, Mike. And you know, we’re all supposed to think about what we want to be as grownups. What did you think you want it to be as a grown up?

Mike Trupiano  02:35

This is a big reason I’m doing this podcast is because my I can’t say I had those thoughts. I had vague ideas of. And I’ve only recall this because some grade school friends I’ve reconnected with that I’ve reconnected with have reminded me of this that I talked about broadcasting school, there was something called the Connecticut School of broadcasting, which advertised constantly. It was the only broadcasting school I’d ever heard of. And I talked about that. But I was always obsessed with searching for this family that was out there. And this was roared into my consciousness and then would die would get busy with life and and then it would come back. But I felt my destiny was not in my hometown. I really had no strong roots there. And I felt like life was elsewhere. So what did I want? What did I want to be? I wanted to just be I just wanted to be elsewhere.

Achim Nowak  03:49

Well, I have to chuckle because the societal pressure and the parental pressure to have an answer to that is enormous, right? People ask us like, what do you want to study in school and, and we’re constantly bombarded with other people’s need for us to have a story about how we want to grow up. I love that you mentioned broadcasting school because I know you’ve heard this before you have a broadcasters voice, which is deep and soleras. So that makes sense to me that people would say that and you ended up in New York, and people go to New York if I’m being simplistic too because I have dreams and aspirations. It’s a It’s not always an easy city to live in. But people go there to fulfill their dreams and make stuff happen. When you move to New York what are some things that you wanted to make happen for my true piano?

Mike Trupiano  04:53

When I was young there was in there still is amazingly Saturday Night Live. But when I was a kid it had you started. And I was so mesmerized by the intro of these 2030 seconds of city street life. And I was also mesmerized, but my films of the time, Serpico or I don’t know, Dougie, afternoon films about gritty, New York, and I just wanted to be somewhere gritty. Yeah. And I thought I, I don’t think I’m gonna thrive where I am. I want to go, that place looks, if it’s really like that I assumed it was like, and it was when I got there was still like that. And I I just wanted these experiences, I just wanted to be on the Lower East Side. Be open to the be have this sort of culture available to me. I also did not want to drive. I’m from car culture. Yeah, were taking a cab as a laughable idea in a buses, shameful. And I’d start I just, I just want to totally new start. And I think being an adopted kid and having a roots, it made pulling up stakes a lot easier. Yeah. And I didn’t have a strong connection with my adoptive family. So I thought you know, freedom is another word for nothing left to lose. Let’s, let’s see what’s out there. And I had this idea which a lot of adoptees have a tabula rasa, I’m just going to completely remake myself from top to bottom. And I’ve discovered I could remake a lot of myself. I do have a core. And this core is it’s not a bad core, but it’s just a it’s a physicality. It’s, you know, it’s my genes, certain things the way I think the way I see the world the way I am, the guy can economically change so much. But I, one thing I wanted to do in New York was to do primal therapy, which in my I don’t know, in my pre internet thinking, I thought, well, this is probably only New York, or LA, I didn’t want to drive. So let’s go to New York. And I had this idea of somehow doing comedy.

Achim Nowak  07:20

You touched on so many wonderful points. But because I was a denizen of the East Village and the Lower East Side, because I was drawn to what I would call the gritty glamour, not the high end glossy glamour. But the glamour of the East Village of creative thinking of artists was inexpensive to live there back in the days. So you invoked all of that for me. And you have these wonderful references of 1970s Al Pacino movies. It has a sexy glamour for people. If you had to think about like a moment or two that epitomize what you absolutely loved about being New York, moments that you go, Wow, I can’t believe I’m here. What moments come to mind?

Mike Trupiano  08:11

Well, I can think of three people who made three performers that I had always wanted to see and they were either workshopping stuff, workshopping new shows or having actual shows. And again, coming from car culture just to be able to walk 10 blocks away. Yeah. And to see Karen Finley to see Eric Bogosian sitting at five street net, five streets, five seats away from him. Spalding Gray. If I could lump all of that together, I would think, wow, look at this, you know, like from what’s it? Bob fuzzy musical if they could see me now. Like, in retrospect, it’s like, wow, I wanted to be in the flow. And there seemed to be in New York constant flow. And my names are escaping me. The writer, the female writer from California, all these names are escaping me. You know, she wrote about how New York has this endless sense of possibility. And I just, I felt that and I wanted that. And I didn’t feel that and I I do feel that in New York about New York and just life has taken me elsewhere right now.

Achim Nowak  09:34

For our listeners who may not know Karen Finley, and in Arabic, Gaussian and Spalding Gray, those were those are, I would say icons of non traditional storytelling who emerged from a more bohemian counterculture, and some of them became very successful and mainstream. And you’re you’re talking about this, this wonderful moment where you could just go to ps1 22 or wherever they were and these village in and see these people who are now really famous.

Mike Trupiano  10:04

The kitchen was a couple of streets away from where I lived, for example, Laurie Anderson. Yeah.

Achim Nowak  10:11

Now New York is also a tough place, or it can be because there lots of people just like us who are striving, who want to be successful, who want to be noticed. It can be expensive to live in New York, you have to support yourself. If you think of a moment where you went, why the hell am I living here? We’ve just talked about the glamour. But have you ever had moments like that, and what comes to mind there

Mike Trupiano  10:46

was so many of my stories in life that I tell on stage? Well, the 99% comedic, but the actual stories they’re based on are borderline tragic. So but tragedy plus time, you know, to support myself, I, I couldn’t temp any more. People didn’t really want me anyway. And I was always broken I had always wanted. I loved painting. I subsequently found out later my father was a tile layer. He was an immigrant from Sicily. So I seem to have this naturally in me. And so I started putting up flyers that I could do home repair. Amazingly, I got calls right away. A few years into it, a ceiling, we were working on a place and I had a couple guys working for me. And one came in the other room where it was. And he said, I think you need to look at this. And a hole was forming on the ceiling. And it formed and it formed and it got bigger and bigger and sand kept pouring out of it. And I thought oh my god, what is going to lead to what is this going to lead to? Superintendent was called Building Manager. Turns out it was not our fault. But in that moment, I was thinking, My God, what what am I doing? What am I doing here? Is this what is this what it’s meant to be?

Achim Nowak  12:27

Yeah. I have a hunch that was more than one moment like that. So we get probably spent the whole podcast that dissecting those stories. As you’re talking you made you made a couple of references in I mentioned in the introduction that you were adopted. So two questions immediately come to my mind, at what point were you told that you had had been adopted? And at what point did it seem really pressing for you to find out who your birth parents were and possibly contact them?

Mike Trupiano  13:10

Again, along this theme of you know, Freedom’s just another word. I my there was a lot of tension in my adoptive family. And we did not connect. So the idea of searching I had minimal psychological resistance to that, you know, there’s the normal guilt with it that comes with it. of oh, you know, they, we were rescued my adoptive sister. No, not blood sister. But it was not that difficult. I really wanted to know. And it was almost debilitating. And it built through my childhood. My high school years it built through my high school years it grew. And then finally, about ag teen. I approached them and I said, you know, I really would like to search. They didn’t take it well. I put that on the backburner. chose their feelings over mine put up put that on the back burner for 10 years until I did search again. And then I did have immediate success. We knew at a young age we were adopted, I would say age, very young. The age of consciousness for something like that.

Achim Nowak  14:31

Of what intrigues me about your life story you spend several decades living in what to many people is a very glamorous city in New York. And then Gosh, you met you met a German woman in New York, a composer, film music and musician you’re married. Her name I can watch cutsies Berget style. She’s an amazing human being and an amazing artist. And then you ended up moving to Berlin, Germany. My hunch is that would not have happened without having a German spouse. But when that idea came up, and I want is Berlin is symbolizes so many things to people. It’s a seductive city, it’s another city of possibilities, which is how you describe New York. But when that possibility first came up, what was your initial reaction to? Hey, Berlin

Mike Trupiano  15:29

I think I may have been pushing it more than my wife. I had a lifelong obsession with this country. And as soon as I found my birth mother, that greatly lessens, so I think I had some subconscious pull to hear because I, upon finding my birth mother, I found out that we had I think her grandparents were born here. Or maybe great grandparents, but in both of them were from here. So I felt like kind of a homing pigeon. All my life I couldn’t could not articulate. But what language did I study in high school, German. So I always felt this pull to hear. And coincidentally met someone who I thought when I met her was either Czech or Russian. Turns out, she’s German, although she does have Czech heritage. And then again, like New York, I, at some point, I felt like the time in New York is over. Whatever I needed to do here, is done.

Achim Nowak  16:48

I’m gonna stop you for a moment, because that statement, I think, is so powerful. And we all have our own version of knowing, then we’re done with something, but also for our listeners. This is the fourth act podcast, you know, when we are done, it’s a signal to maybe shift into another act. But could you describe this? Like, how did you know that? You would? I’m curious how you knew that it was okay to move on.

Mike Trupiano  17:16

That would say things started feeling very repetitious. I wonder if that’s something you feel, sometimes I wonder if that’s something you feel when you’re saying your 90s and you’ve you’ve seen it all you’ve done and it just felt like the thrill is gone.

Achim Nowak  17:35

You were prematurely in your lane, is that what you’re saying?

Mike Trupiano  17:40

But that feeling of I’ve done all this? Yeah, you know, I’ve been in this shop, I’ve been to this museum, it’s not a thrill to go to the mat anymore to go to MOMA. napus merging anything. Just okay, whatever this was, I’ve done the thrill of walking along a super crowded street bumping into people just vibing off that. No way gone. I don’t even want to think about the possibility of that.

Achim Nowak  18:12

I obviously, so clearly identify, I knew I went I was done with New York and ended up in a different or but in South Florida, as a German who sometimes has mixed feelings about Germany and chooses not to live there. And I’m thinking about the fact that you moved to Berlin, and you studied German in high school, but you’re by no means a fluent German speaker. So describe to us what it was like to suddenly be in Berlin, you’ll live in a. Again, I’ve used the term before the sexy part of Berlin on the edge of pence lower back, which is a fantastic neighborhood. But what was it like to settle into to actually settle into different culture, learn the language, there are cultural differences, give us a glimpse of what it was like for you?

Mike Trupiano  19:04

Well, it was exciting. It was the challenge I wanted, and needed at the time. And in retrospect, so that was 11 years ago. Yeah. I think my god, that was hard. That was really hard. Because I was, well, not because of but also because I was here. My wife did not come full time for a couple of years. So I had to navigate a lot of this on my own going to the government offices, in treating friends to go with me to help translate the really complicated things. I reveled in it. And I think just like moving to New York, the first time that enthusiasm helped me overcome the really hard parts. At times, catching people kind of looking at me askance. And you realize you made Some sort of, really, I guess it made some cultural faux PA. I had no idea what I, what, what it was, I don’t know. Was it too loud? It was too honest. Was they too unfiltered? I didn’t know people often think I’m from Brooklyn.

Achim Nowak  20:17

You mean you want to target of German judgment? Is that what you’re talking about?

Mike Trupiano  20:22

I don’t want to stereotype but I think but I’m German I made so. I think so the the constant assessing. But people often people I meet here, Americans often assume I’m from Brooklyn. So I think I’m, I don’t know, if I have the Midwestern niceness. I think I can maybe I can be a little unfiltered. If I mean inherited anything from my adoptive mother, it’s that. Yeah. Just kind of film Nora, straight talking.

Achim Nowak  20:55

What strikes me about the comment you just made is, it’s near impossible to not have judgments or preconceptions about things. Like I was joking about Germans, but you have an Italian last name, Mike Trebbiano, right. And you have a certain, I mean, it’s the nicest way maybe more ethnic look to you, and but whatever, when people say to you, oh, he must be from Brooklyn. You know, they have all sorts of narratives about what that means that have nothing to do with my true piano, right. But the narratives around what a guy from Brooklyn might be like, which is so interesting.

Mike Trupiano  21:30

It is interesting. But it’s also hate to keep bringing this up, but it is my life. And it has not completely been in a great way determine live my life, being an adopted kid, you are a bit of an outsider, you are the observer. And so I have to be careful, it can be very comfortable to be the outsider.

Achim Nowak  21:51

Well, I you know, that I at the age of 34, moved to to a small island, Caribbean, Tobago for a year and became a wind surfer. And what I learned inside of me afterwards, that I was not consciously recreating the experience of being a total outsider, because I grown up that way. And in the end, I couldn’t wait to get the heck out of Tobago, because I realized, I didn’t need to recreate that experience anymore. It was my exorcism of that. And you just described the entry in Berlin totally as a recreation of I fit but also don’t fit right. The other thing I know, I want to get to your podcast. But one more thing that I find so intriguing. Again, in the spirit of your story, but all of us is my sense is and correct me if I’m wrong, then when you got to Berlin. It was a better playground for your professional gifts. You know, you’ve done some very high profile commercials. You have a commercial agent. You’ve done lots of storytelling events on stage and English or you are people appreciate you appreciate what you’re doing. So you ended up in this, in some ways foreign city, but the artist and creator in you has been able to express himself in a larger way. Am I reading that correctly?

Mike Trupiano  23:21

Yeah, I have this Twitter persona, called the heartland refugee is useful. I

Achim Nowak  23:32

noticed I noticed a theme here.

Mike Trupiano  23:35

And then it’s kind of my stage persona. And yeah, when I came here, I started doing storytelling shows and very kind of moth like, and they vote for the best, not the best, the favorite storyteller. And I would often be voted the favorites. And so they subsequently started teaching storytelling. I was often told I had a really good commercial look in New York, and I did book commercials and some voice stuff in New York. But I’ve definitely done more here. So I got a commercial agent here sent them some photos. They said, Sure. Come on in first audition, I did, I booked it. And this a Swiss department store is something standing in a lake. I realized in retrospect, they there was a hole in the boots in the freezing lake in late November. And I think the crew was high and there was no security there in case we were standing in the middle of a lake on a platform we could have in retrospect I think wow. You know, that happens a lot actors get injured on set. And this is a decent commercial and this was not even that high level so they were I don’t know what their plan was anyway. survived it. No frostbite. speak for myself. When I’m in the moment I’m caught up in what’s the next thing what’s the next thing when I when I look Oh, wow, I was in an elevator with Vladimir Klitschko.

Achim Nowak  25:06

And that that was that’s one of the first commercials you shot, though is a rock star in Europe more than the United States. And it was you and Vladimir Klitschko I went, Holy friggin cow. How cool is that?

Mike Trupiano  25:21

Yeah. Yeah, the big guy alone in elevator, little little intimidating. A nice, nice guy.

Achim Nowak  25:34

A word from your sponsor. That’s me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast www.my. Fourth active.com, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth X, please check it out. And now back to the conversation.

Mike Trupiano  26:08

And also, I’ve done quite a few the the English language narration for German documentaries. And I know that

Achim Nowak  26:17

one thing that happened, and I want to tie it to location, because what we’re talking about is by moving to a foreign city, some things happen that would not have happened in New York. So at some point last year, you got a phone call to support a well known international entertainer on a project in in another big European city that came out of nowhere, and that probably wouldn’t have happened if he’d been in New York. Would you care to briefly talk about what that experience was like for you?

Mike Trupiano  26:48

Well, to sum it up, surreal. A friend called me from the States. Can you he was working with this entertainer, can you go to this city in Europe stay with this guy for a couple of weeks. At first I thought Whoo. I don’t know how to really be a coach like this. I mean, they actually had done it before I had forgotten at the moment I had traveled with and this was to be what what’s often called a sober coach, right? To be a sober coach and to be with them and to keep them on the straight and narrow in various addictions. Be its alcohol be its string and their relationship. Just to be there as the coach. And I, I forgotten when my friend called me that oh, yeah, I actually have done this before. This is indicative of how I sort of forget what I want to have done. So I went to this European city, they flew me there. And before that I had done on WhatsApp chat with this guy. And I thought, oh, yeah, I know this guy. I’m not there. Well, I didn’t realize how big it was until I actually started working with him. So I kind of went into it. A little oblivious of and it was good. I was a little blind. How big he was because I was like, Yeah, I’ll do this. Yeah. And he said, if it’s alright, I’ll put you up at my hotel because I had been panicked about, Oh, I gotta find a hotel, put me up in his Four Seasons hotel. I didn’t know what the Four Seasons was, I’ll be honest, I kind of knew. Now I know. And I want to go back. In for two weeks, I’d go with him to his work. Or we’d meet in his apartment, in his room, down the hall from me and we would just talk about sobriety. How one comes back to the moment we’d read some 12 Step literature he he likes. Young a lot, which is why also like there’s a young institute here, which I’m investigating getting some sort of diploma or certificate from the idea of integrating the shadow. And this happened and sometimes I think it’s a dream but then I check my bank account from that time and they say oh, yeah, this actually happened.

Achim Nowak  29:25

Listener might go like how does a friend is call you up to do that maybe what I would like to add your friend is a psychologist in California and had to work with this entertainer and thought that you being in Europe and having the right sensibility to be sober companion might be the right person.

Mike Trupiano  29:45

I had heard from years from my friend that because I would often give him feedback on his life and he would say why are you not a therapist? You shouldn’t be a therapist, or at least a coach. And then I started thinking about that. At. And I had coincidentally also been thinking a lot about this particular European city, which I’d never been to. And then suddenly, this kind of coalesced and dropped in my lap. And it was enjoyable, enjoyable being a coach, and the guys seem very grateful. And apparently, he’s still on the straight and narrow. Sometimes it’s you roll the dice, you know, I just happen to be here. And sometimes things fall into place. But I think you do have to take the action first, you know, I didn’t just wake up here and put myself here, you know, different, I

Achim Nowak  30:35

wouldn’t do that. However, if we use this as a metaphor for all of us, when you got the call to support this famous person, you had the chance to say yes, or the chance to say no. You know, and I think life often is about do we say yes? Or do we say no? And especially when we’re stepping into something really unknown, as you did? And you said, Yes. Which I think is friggin awesome.

Mike Trupiano  31:04

Thank you, there were doubts. But I know. But I heard a lot of, well, of course, you’re doing this from other people, and you’re going to do this, and you’re going to be good at this. And my friend, that therapist said, you’re going to be great at this. And you’re right. Let’s do it.

Achim Nowak  31:24

What I love about this story is I put it in my mind, it’s about being open to the surprises in life. You know, and in this case, the surprises that have happened for you by by living in Berlin, in a different city and, and life suddenly starting to look different. I want to complete our conversation by really talking about sequence son and sequence on I believe, wouldn’t have happened if you had not actually made contact with your birth family or with some of your birth family and and that journey and your immersion in the adoptee journey and the IoT world. So first thing I just curious as heck about when you initially met some of your birth family, in person, what sort of feelings or emotions came up?

Mike Trupiano  32:25

That was 28 When I first met my mother, and I found her through a detective, a female detective, who I just loved and she was more of a mother than anyone I knew. And when I found my birth mother, she was the detective was 56 Or so she unfortunately died a few years ago. And that was that was that was difficult. But she was reckless and like a film noir character and even wrote a story for the radio about her and she she carried a gun and chain smoker and we drove down to where my mother lived. And unbelievably, I walked up to the door and I heard it in retrospect, other adoptees doing this acting like the delivery people acted like it was delivering a Christmas card. It was right before Christmas. 95. And she came to the door and couldn’t stop staring at me. And apparently, I looked exactly like my father. Wow. Did at that age. I was about the age of when they knew each other. Amazingly, I had no camera. I did not take photos. I was like so much back then I was just let’s do it. And then not much planning. But to see her was incredible. I knew and I knew it was her. And then you know, the hubris of youth, as I call it. We talked on the phone a few times after that she was in St. Louis. I was in New York. I just lost contact with her. And I thought well, I met her and I had other people telling me well, what do you want? You know that I’d say about two decades later, I realized it was important to reconnect with her, if possible. Thankfully, she was still alive. The detective was still alive, tracked her down again. She had moved, and then we had a longer time together. I’d say we had I went to my hometown for a couple of weeks. My wife and I spend time with my mother we went out to eat we helped to deal with we helped her deal with her finances. decluttering cutting up credit cards Many, many, many helpful things. Some of which she resisted. unbelievably powerful to finally see someone I looked like and to learn family history. So that was a detective found my mother. Unfortunately, my mother died last year. 2018 spring of 2018 through a DNA website, I connected with the Hab help, I’m speaking German, a half sibling, half sister on a DNA website. Nothing and not expecting anything. I went into the search at about given up I found someone years earlier who I thought was my father, I contacted his children didn’t hear back from them. But I was certain this was the guy was not was about to give up. I thought living give. Let me give DNA one more shot. And just coincidentally, my half sister who knows all of her relatives, very tight knit community to appease her kids set. All right, I’ll go on the DNA website. And she got a surprise. There I was. And I went into the search thinking I just want to know his name. Can I just know his name, instead of waking up every day wondering what his name is? Wondering what he looks like, a name some photos and some family history. That’s all I wanted. And then I got a half sister and a half brother, who I guess now we call each other brother and sister and an uncle. And some cousins who have not met yet. Apparently, I’m a twin for my dad, more so than my brother, who everyone had always thought, oh my God, you look so much like that. And I have sister and said that. If you were not a twin for Dad, I don’t know if I want to believe Do you know but you are dad. And I’ve met them all. Several times, I initially met my sister in Europe because she was working over here. I met her in front of the Vatican. And we just kind of stared at each other for maybe the first hour we went out to eat. In Rome. She started crying at some point I may have to she asked me how Catholic I was. And I thought oh boy, I hope that’s a deal breaker. So I massage that answer. Well, I pursue many spiritualities.

Achim Nowak  37:58

What comes to my mind as a non adopted person is immediately when you find a family later in life that you didn’t know you had. And I think of you and the life you’ve created for yourself in New York. And in Berlin, you’re an artist through and through. It’s in some ways a non traditional life. So I immediately went this new family do they get who you are? My first question. The second question was, does it matter that they get who you are?

Mike Trupiano  38:39

Yeah, how do you know if somebody gets you? You know, especially when you’re in a different continent. But I know what you mean, that there have been some questions and some comments through the years of like, Oh, is that how you see us? Or is that how you see me is? Like, what time do you guys get up? What time? Do you guys go to bed? And I don’t know, we’re so outside the paradigm. Yeah, their particular paradigm and not judging the paradigm. It’s a very popular paradigm. You know, my wife and I will work till three in the morning on a project and you know, get up at 800 Get up and 10 or, you know, maybe don’t go to bed, you know, whatever the thing is, just to get it done. I always have Attention, attention where I crave this kind of order and respectability, and yet it’s it’s always seemed out of my grasp. And do I even want it anymore? Do I need it? I don’t know. Is it important if they understand us? I think less than less.

Achim Nowak  39:50

Yeah. Yeah. Based on what you know about yourself and what you know about life right now and your journey, you know, through New York and Berlin. What sort of wisdom would you like to share with with younger Mike not to change his journey in life, but things that you think might be helpful to him.

Mike Trupiano  40:15

I’m doing the artists way. Again, I do it about every. I had been doing it once a year. And now I’m just doing it. And when it ends, I started again, with a friend of mine in the States, we do it by zoom. And there’s Julia Cameron has this expression in there and leap and the net will appear. And that is really how I try to live now. And and I think I do it with more faith now. But I think when I was younger,

Achim Nowak  40:47

I took leaps.

Mike Trupiano  40:49

But I didn’t expect much. I was always surprised when things happened. And so there was a lot of internal angst, should I do this? Should I not? So I would say, just trust that net is going to appear. Because when I look back, I see Oh, my God, look at these angels that showed up. It’s really quite shocking.

Achim Nowak  41:14

The net will appear is a beautiful way to complete our conversation. I am so grateful to you for First of all, for knowing you for the person that you are and the wonderful, wonderful podcast that you just launched. I’m sure our listeners may be curious about where they can find the podcast and learn more about you. So where would you like to direct them? Mike?

Mike Trupiano  41:41

I would start with the podcast secret Sun pod.com. And I also have my regular performance website. Just my name Mike trebbiano.com.

Achim Nowak  41:55

Wonderful, thank you for the conversation and to begin to thanks a lot. Bye bye.

Mike Trupiano  42:02

It will be thanks a lot night.

Achim Nowak  42:05

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