Season 1
38 Minutes

Ep. 18 | Diane Primo | Why PURPOSE & BRAND Always Matter

Diane Primo is the groundbreaking CEO of Purpose Brand Agency, an award-winning Chicago-based public relations, branding and digital marketing firm. She is the only African American female CEO of a purpose-driven communications agency. Diane understood and harnessed the power of purpose long before purpose became "sexy."

Diane is also involved with a variety of organizations that support her commitment to eradicating homelessness, helping underserved populations and furthering gender equality. In 2020, Diane was recognized with the Ragan Communications Top Women in Communications Trailblazer Award.

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Diane Primo  00:00

If you were a female out there, do not delay your childbirth because of business. Okay, that’s really important. Okay, do not there, there’s always going to be something new something going on. I will tell you I got my big promotion when I was like as I was on maternity leave, I was like, why are they Why are these people calling me? They were calling me to make sure I was coming back because the minute I came back, they may be President of Product Management and Marketing. That’s why they call it right. They want to make sure I was actually coming back, right. So do not delay it do not.

Achim Nowak  00:42

Hey, this is Achim Nowak, executive coach and host of the MY FOURTH ACT podcast. If life is a five act play, how will you spend your FOURTH ACT? I have conversations with exceptional humans who have created bold and unexpected for tax, listen, and to be inspired. And please rate us and subscribe on whatever platform you’re listening on. Let’s get started.  I am so happy to welcome Diane Primo to the MY FOURTH ACT. Diane is the CEO of Purpose Brand agency and award winning Chicago based public relations branding and digital marketing firm. She is the only African American female CEO of a purpose driven communications agency. Her agency builds on a groundbreaking 30 year career leading some of the top marketing organizations in the country. Diane was recognized just last year with a Reagan communications 2020 top women and communications Trailblazer award. She is also passionately involved with a variety of causes that matter deeply to her. How do we live a life that has room for lots of purpose and passion? And in the face of many, many interests? How do we choose what to say yes to? And what to say no to? We’re going to talk about that and so much more. So welcome, Diane. Thank you. It’s so lovely to be here talking to you. Likewise, I am. I’m itching to get to Diane now. But I like to start with every podcast with a childhood question. Which is when you were a young girl or teenager growing up? Who did you think you wanted to be?

Diane Primo  02:39

When I was a very small child, I wanted to be a movie star. Say There you go. I want to be a movie star. Right?

Achim Nowak  02:48


Diane Primo  02:48

 I realized that. I wanted to be a movie star I wanted to sing. I remember listening to myself on a tape of me singing, I was like, Oh my god, I’m horrible. Like, if I’m not doing that, I’m guess I’m not going to be a movie star. You know, as I aged, I kind of leaned into more of a professional career, right? I had a mother, she raised four children. She was a single parent always worked really, really hard, and really had her hand to our back about education. We were an all black family. And so for black families, it was really important to be educated. And at that time, it was doctor, lawyer, business person, Indian chief, and the arts weren’t even on the table, like out of consideration, right? She herself was also very creative. So I actually think I got a lot of my creativity skills from my mother. in those early years. I think I lean toward Oh, what should I do? Should it be medicine? Should it be law, but more of the traditional professions? Yeah. Other things were really not in my family considered to be on the table and business business was on the table. Right? Because that was about wealth creation. My mother got that you needed to be educated. And what it was about it was about sustaining your family. It was about sustainability. From a family standpoint. That makes sense.

Achim Nowak  04:26

Yeah. Two thoughts. One, it’s great to lean into what we’re good at, and not lean into what we’re not good at. So early reasonable realization is a powerful thing. In my own life, my my partner is African American. So we talk about these things a lot. And this is a stereotype but I tend to be true to which is the Did you feel pressure to be almost this role model achiever that represents the family well, but also represents the entire tribe? Well was Part of what you’re

Diane Primo  05:01

Absolutely, know that the world is still one of racial divides and segregation. Yeah, I don’t I don’t think that’s changed for many people who are growing up in white families today. There was no question that we were told, okay, you have to be better than the best it is it is expected or you will be judged. So it was about it was not only the way you spoke, it was the way you dressed, it was the schools you went to all of those were a part of the mix, you know, we came up experiencing racial things that others would not be exposed to. I can remember a childhood story when my mother was in tears, because she’s a single mother, you know, has a black family black children that she’s responsible for? And I was like, Why is she so upset? Well, she was upset because a neighbor had taken her to court because my brother who at the time I think was five had put the berry off of a bush that was hanging over a fence because we live in all white neighborhood. Right? I had I had, you know, later on in life, you know, we got together and we go get sit around kitchen tables, and I talk amongst girlfriends, girlfriends who lived in Phoenix, she said I had a cross burn on my lawn when I was young. Right? But it hasn’t changed. And I I lived in Lake Forest for years and someone that put a swastika on a Jewish family’s lawn and shaving cream. Right? I can remember things happening in the classroom. I remember things, you know, being said to me privately where you were out of earshot for it from a parent, I mean, you have all of those things are that are adorable Lee marked in your mind, you know, forever. It’s a part of who you are. You bring it to the table every place you go.

Achim Nowak  06:54

I want to go deeper in that. But before we do that, for the listeners that don’t know you, I want to do a little snapshot about how you got to today. Absolutely. Why you have this 30 year stellar career in big corporate entities where you had very senior marketing roles, GM roles highly visible. So can we get it from two ends? Because I’m interested that you left that world and started. Yeah, we’ll get to that. But in that world, if you had to think of a moment or two that almost symbolizes, this is why I kept doing it. And this is why I love doing it. But also, there’s always a shadow to something. This is a moment where I went with it. Why the heck am I doing this? Oh, yeah. Why the heck am I working here?

Diane Primo  07:44

Oh, yeah, I think the moment of joy is that I’m a learner. And I love learning and I love learning about new things. So all the jobs that I was in, I was always considered to be an innovator in those jobs, like I go in, and I even was built this way, so can make it better. You know, I was all I was always about the one up the two up the three up. And so I wanted to every job I had, trying to really define and look for ways to innovate. And that was the joy. And the joy of that is also, you know, you had a bank. Like you had money to work with those big companies to make that happen. I mean, that is really a joyful experience. The downside is you were a little bit on the lonely side, you’re always an only that only needed support, right. And in most of the organizations that I went into, I typically found a mentor, that mentor was important. Who had your back and when you didn’t have it, regardless of the quality of work, you felt its absence, which was really, really interesting. That’s sort of the the downside. I mean, I remember I remember being in someone’s office, and they were going through something with me as another senior executive, not gonna repeat. I was basically saying, we did this, this and this, and he was saying to me, No, No, you didn’t. And I said, Well, wait a minute. I had to stop myself for a moment. I thought to myself, this would never happen with anyone else that I actually said. Are you implying that I’m not telling the truth? Because there was no other way to say it, right. And so I called someone else I put them on speaker. I asked them every single question that had been asked of me publicly, so he could hear the answer. Okay, reinforced like, but at that moment, I felt, I have to do this really? Do I really? Would this ever happened to anyone else? I’m not sure it would have. So you have those little moments like that where, you know, you almost look at them in the rearview mirror like, you don’t realize that you’re experiencing something that’s race related, often to after the fact, where you kind of think about it, you, you know, Excel despite and you move through that. But in in, in hindsight, you look at it and you say, Oh, that’s what that was. You just kind of go through it. Right. But in hindsight, you kind of figure Oh, that’s what that was. Even though you plow through it, you never let it get in the way. You never think about it in the moment, because you can’t, there’s no time, the time is should always be focused on the hill that you’re trying to climb for the business purpose that’s on the table, right? That’s what we’re here to do. We’re professionals. But in hindsight, you look at it, and you say, Oh, that’s what that was. And it’s actually, unfortunately, becomes a little laughable, in hindsight. But it is a moment of reckoning where you say, oh, and that’s it’s sort of those little surprise moments. I don’t know if I answered your question that I came

Achim Nowak  11:06

You answered it in a perfectly divine way. So that would that was the answer that was supposed to.

Diane Primo  11:11

I love being divine.

Achim Nowak  11:14

 I’ll take it.

Diane Primo  11:15


Achim Nowak  11:16

When you mentioned the you use the phrase, the only Yeah, I would imagine it was often the only woman, the only African American person. And you also claim or you got the award for being a trailblazer. But in your own story, your your brand, if I may say so that you claim is that I was a trailblazer in a good way. Hmm. So I’m hearing this tension between it couldn’t can be really lonely. And the story you just said, Well, yeah, sometimes I had to defend myself. But I’m assuming people always also celebrated you for being a trailblazer. Like they held you up. Right?

Diane Primo  11:58

I’ve had some incredible mentors, there is a, you know, Wall Street Journal does this thing about your personal board, right? All of us who have come up, I think, develop that along the way. And many of us get lucky in companies that we are in to get one or two people that actually become our chairman of the board, in terms of, you know, advocating from for us, almost from a governance standpoint, and I’ve been lucky enough to have that in my career. I think all people need that. And one of the things that taught me more than anything else, is that building brands within companies, and you talked about, you talked about marketing, yeah. Right. What people need to understand, particularly people of color are women, is that part of what they’re doing within a company is building their own brand? Yeah. And you almost need to look at that, like you think about a product in the market, that it becomes essential, done this in companies, etc, where I lecture on, how do you build that personal brand, right. And I think it’s really important for people understand the significance of it, how you have to, you have to have to do the work, you have to create credibility, you have to build your own tribe. And we actually have something we call brand slate we take. So that individual, we help them think about how you map your brand, in a corporate environment in an authentic way. But definitely having people who understand who you are, what you can do, or it’s important, but you have to give them something to work with, right? You got to do the job, you got to do a great job, excel at it, you have to, you know, do some of the jumps across hurdles, because it will take some of that for you to get noticed as being a high potential, right. And that is a lot of hard work. And I would argue that that work is even harder when people not Betting on you sometimes.

Achim Nowak  14:03

So I love your focus on choosing your brand. Because I’ve learned that authentically, I can be many different things and they can all be authentic, so I better choose what authentic self I bring and make a choice about it right? the right word from your sponsor. That’s me. I invite you to go to the website associated with this podcast fourth, act calm, you will find other equally inspiring conversation with great humans. And you will also learn more about the my fourth act mastermind groups where cool people figure out how to chart their own fourth acts. Please check it out. And now back to the conversation. Some people want to leave traditional corporations but they never do. They’re afraid They’re afraid of the insecurity, the risk. You know, there’s you you already alluded there’s money and with money, there’s power that within corporations, right? You probably could have stayed in become a corporate player until as long as you wanted to. So what prompted you to start purpose brand?

Diane Primo  15:18

I’ll tell you it. What’s really interesting is that when I left the last company I was in, I had to think about I had a lot going on at home, I have three kids right? in need. And then I thought, well, what should I do? Should I go to another Corporation? Or should I, you know, is this should this be a moment at home? What should I do, right? And I took some time, and I leaned into the philanthropic things that were in our lives that were, you know, neglecting a little bit, right. And so we have today, the Primo Center, which I co chair, which is sort of a sort of a family legacy that’s run by an absolutely incredible CEO, I couldn’t be more proud and lucky to have Christine acre as the CEO of this, but we’re the largest center for homeless families in the city of Chicago. During that time, we really, when I left, I really kind of focused on leaning in on the strategy portion of that organization, and what it should be what it should become, I’m happy to say that we’ve achieved every single objective that was, you know, laid out and more where we actually took the basals Leadership Award, which happened to be unrestricted $2.5 million unrestricted dollars to do the good work that we do. We’re very proud of that. And then I went on and started to consult. And then from that, I said, Hmm, I think I’m back in business again. I think I need to make something of this. And that’s, that’s literally how I got to where I was, I’ve never been one to be idle mentally, as well knows, when I’ve never had the discipline for that, I’ve always had to have a lot going on at one time. So even when I was working, I was doing charitable stuff. And then, you know, to kind of lean and say, let me fix this. And let me kind of move forward. And then to, you know, become so active and so busy that I set up, I’m not going to go back to corporate and in retrospect, this is something that I’m glad to be away from, and really want to craft something that is a little different, but it’s very much connected to who I am. And that really was the the source or the impetus impetus for doing this.

Achim Nowak  17:40

Well, we just just, I’m putting this in my executive coach language, but you you created a business that fully embodies who you are and what you believe in which is that right? That’s exactly right. The word purpose is become like a very sexy word. And and I keep thinking like you were there before it was sexy. And if you had to give a definition of what purpose is and means to you, where would we land,

Diane Primo  18:08

I think what it really means to me is that you were trying to improve the world in some way. And if you’re a business, what that means is, you were using your your commercial value, yeah, to really take that commercial value translated into broader value for the business in a brand relevant way. And what I argue is that no brand can be relevant without connecting to what consumers are passionate about. And what they are now passionate about, is making sure that the world is actually a better place. We’ve done a lot to study this. And what’s really interesting about this is when you look at this, you know, generationally, especially generationally, that what you find now is things that are purpose related, people are more passionate about than they are tech, video games and professional sports. I love to use that as the example. Because that used to be it right tech, video games, tech tech, we do professional sports, we were Aha, but you’re looking at generations now Gen Z, millennials, and even parts of boomers and x is is that they care much more about these things than they had before. And as a result, businesses have had to understand that unless they pay attention to the details around the world to improve it, that their businesses will be disrupted in Mammoth ways. And that’s what they’re learning. So this moment in time around purpose has actually forced businesses to redefine and adapt to what value really means in this world. So when you see them Talking about shareholder value, it’s now moved to stakeholder value. And businesses that are smart understand that it fundamentally affects value because you cannot disrupt the way you do business, right? COVID disrupted business, Black Lives Matter disrupted the protests, George Floyd could have very well disrupted business, there were protests around the world, you’re seeing that employees are becoming activists, they’re no longer the loyal kind of silent employees that they are, or businesses have to look at them as the public, they need to make sure that their values are somewhat and aligned in alignment, and where they’re talking to them engaging with them in completely different ways than they did before. Because their brands will be devalued, because those employees will literally, you know, protest against them. And so it’s a very, it’s a very different world now. And purpose plays very solidly into that and has transformed the way we do business. And it’s all definitely transformed the way we communicate. And if anybody thinks they’re doing public relations, that’s not high stakes anymore, they have another thing coming. All all, all communication, all public relations is high stakes at this point, it will because of values, and how they have become ingrained in who we are and how we think and what we’re willing to do to protect them.

Achim Nowak  21:32

How do you navigate this as the head of purpose brand I was thinking about, just this morning, you know, I went to LinkedIn. There’s a big corporation, I know very well did their little Pride Month thing celebrating LGBTQ pride. Now I know this corporation doesn’t really celebrate that in their culture every day, you know, this is a, it’s it’s smart to do it this month. And I appreciate them making a public statement. Yeah. But I have a hunch you walk into this all the time when people want to do token purpose, appropriate a purpose, not fully lived purpose. How do you navigate that, as somebody who I sense has very genuine purposes, that driver

Diane Primo  22:17

were relatively in your face about it, we are all about pointing out the risk of what they’re not doing. Right. And we’re advised and say, you need to take care of this. I mean, it’s kind of, you know, obvious, you need to take care of this. Yeah, at its heart purposes around transforming cultures, so cultures, give everybody a seat at the table. And one of the things that I believe is you cannot be a purpose driven company, unless you focus on D and I. And the reason being, is because 30% of the population is white male and 70% are women and everyone else and that doesn’t even account for the intersectionality around Ll b g. lb th, that

Achim Nowak  23:04


Diane Primo  23:07

ay ay ay, which I always put the eye on on it. disabilities, right? Because you’ve got this intersectionality that’s happening that you’re not picking up, right. So those numbers are even greater. And so what we really tell companies is, is that you have to understand that one of your greatest assets to your greatest asset is your brand, your brand’s intangible asset. And there’s a lot of statistics that point to the value of that being as much as you know, 38 40%. And in some companies, maybe more than others, and culture, which is now also being recognized as an intangible asset, you cannot have a culture that is not inviting, and invites everybody to table. And what people think of when they think of cultural this homogenous thing where we’re all coming together. It’s not because what everyone brings to the table is who they are their authentic selves. And so, that is how they are defining themselves and they bring that to the culture, unless you are honoring that. And you are transforming your culture to invite that and their ideas. You’re not going to win. It’s just not possible for you to win. When you start looking at the demographics, the attitudinal research, the psychographic research. It’s become a workforce and parent imperative. This is just not about you know, D and I and checking the boxes, am I doing it? Right? It is a workforce imperative. If you truly want to grow and you want to compete as a nation, nationally or globally, you got to care for this. Because there are workforce shortages all over the world now, in in key areas, unless you diversify those areas, you’re not gonna be able to get the talent. So this this really becomes a one on one thing which says to me, you know, diversity has failed. And probably over 90% of the companies across America, it can no longer fail. You, we have got at this moment to figure it out. It is a national competitive emergency for us.

Achim Nowak  25:14

So if you had to give just one piece of advice to a company that’s had DNI initiatives, I’ve had trainings and all that, but nothing has changed. And they know it, if you have to say there’s one thing you’re not doing a one thing, I’d like to see you do more of a go deeper with what would that be?

Diane Primo  25:34

I would say the CEO has to prioritize it as one of his top three, because it as a as business people, we do, what is prioritized, okay? And what is prioritize, we get done. And so what that means is it means process development, transformation at scale, metric evaluation, right? And a focus on moving from one level to the next up, it’s easier to get the pipeline in now, because you need a big pipeline, okay, it’s easier to make that happen. What doesn’t happen is once you get them in, you move them up through the system. And that is really important. And that takes a little bit of a CEO leaning in saying, Let me get a little more deeply involved. Let me see, let me give opportunities, because it really is about AI. You know, people say DNI was diversity, equity and inclusion. If people aren’t already including the E, it’s equity. But equity is really about giving people the tools they need to succeed. And one of those tools is training, cross training, but opportunities that typically they wouldn’t get like, I don’t want to want to get that person I’m gonna give this to this person instead, culturally, I’m more buying on, you know, I’m more connected,

Achim Nowak  26:54

etc, with them. But it is really about giving them the tools they need to succeed. That is what equity is. Let’s take the role of the CEO and I want to apply to you, I want to think of you as Diane Primo, the CEO of her own life. Oh, yeah. And which means you have a beautiful, thriving business. You have a husband, you have children, you sit on some boards, you already talked about the work you do around homelessness that you’re really proud of. Yeah. And this CEO has to make decisions about how the hell she’s going to spend her time, and how she is going to prioritize, like how to walk us through that. How do you how do you handle all this stuff?

Diane Primo  27:37

Yeah, it’s really interesting. First of all, it is tough to handle. And secondly, you do have to set some priorities, right? And one of the things that you do is obviously set, okay, where do I want to go? And how do I want to get there? So just like you work with other companies, you do work the same way with yourself, right? We have a purpose. Our purpose is to help our clients but purpose into practice, because we believe that it makes brands more relevant and makes communities stronger. Okay.

Achim Nowak  28:06

would you would you just repeat that, because I love that our purpose is to help clients put purpose into practice, right to make it a reality, right? It’s so clear. Love them?

Diane Primo  28:16

Yep. You know, we do it because it will make your brand more relevant. And it makes communities stronger. And we honestly believe that, and that is literally about that. And if you think about how I set relevancy and stronger, it is the right mix, and that was intentional. Businesses are in commercial businesses, they can never forget that. Okay, so they want to use their super power around purpose, right? To figure out how they uniquely can improve the world in some way. Okay. And I really do say that Black Rock focuses on financial well being one person at a time, why? Well, they’re a finance company, they can uniquely do that. And they’re taking that and they’re leaning into ESG. And they’re voting against boards and investment stuff. They’re using it in a very kind of powerful way to create change, okay. But they uniquely have that power to do that, to really get a response. Everybody had, Every business has some kind of superpower, that superpower is nothing to be ashamed of, because you are there to make money. But the only way you’re going to make money is you start thinking about the longer term effects of what you do, because the last thing you want is business disruption. And if anybody ever questions that, think about a country at war, when they’re not at peace in the economic destruction that comes from war. This this whole idea of disruption, if you don’t do what’s right is really the thought here because that is exactly what will happen. You know, the economic system that the fear of uncertainty and markets crashing, etc, right? That all comes When there is disruption, and so it just, you know, it makes sense. I don’t know if I answered your question,

Achim Nowak  30:05

I had to laugh because I was thinking, you are so passionate about the purpose stuff, you completely ignored my question. But I loved your answer. However, okay, go back to your question, however, because for I think this is a for somebody like you. Yep. You have had an incredible career, you’re in your I’m doing my own thing stage. Now. Yeah, you’re a highly visible role model. And there come opportunities and challenges with that. I have a hunch, people are always asking you to do stuff that you can’t do. Yeah. And you have a family and you have children. And and this may sound like such a banal question, but I think everybody with your level of success grapples with like, how do I make this work? And I’m not looking for an easy answer. I’m looking like, how do you juggle this?

Diane Primo  30:58

Yeah. So going, it relates to your first question that I didn’t answer, right. What I was really saying is, is that, you know, you asked how I did it, how I do it, as I sort of practice what I preach, right? I tell businesses, you know, you need to purpose, you need a culture that supports it, you need to be transformational, you to diverse, then you need a set of priorities, what you’re going to prioritize on so that’s really how you do that, that gate that you set for yourself, really shouldn’t be the foundation for your your yes or no plan. Right? Your yes or no plan, you should have yes or no plan. But all go back and look at it within your with within the framework that you’ve created for yourself and how you live your life, that framework, whatever it is, even relates when you are with corporate because you get to decide on everything, when do you walk away, that’s another important thing. When is the time for you to walk away, we’re This is not a cut, this is not worth it, you know, you know, get rid of products, etc. But that is very, very important for you to think about. But you use that framework to say yes to things, and no to things. And what you increasingly find is if you are an only which you continue to be in this world, people, you get a lot of the same phone calls, people call you for a lot of things. And so you want to try to help people as much as you possibly can. But you also want to have some kind of game of so you know, that’s probably not right, I shouldn’t do that it won’t make as much impact as something else can. And so it’s an impact score, too, I think you’d think about is that you’re going to a lot of requests, and you got to go back to your framework to make the decision, but then ultimately has to come back down to how much impact can that decision also make, right? And you find yourself increasingly understanding that impact scale, because that’s really important for you to understand.

Achim Nowak  32:57

If you were to give some advice to our listeners who might be thinking, gosh, there’s some things that I might also want to say no to and walk away from, but I don’t have the courage to do. Or I admire how Diane is very clear about her purpose. And I’m not so clear about my purpose. And but I know I have a deeper purpose that maybe I’m not so clear on how would you What advice would you have for them?

Diane Primo  33:22

I think you need to figure it out. If you’re a company, you can hire companies like ours to help you. But more than anything else, you need to define what that is because your y is essential to what you build, how you build, and how sustainable it is. And that that sustainability question does not just relate to climate, okay? how sustainable it is. And going back to the the root of the word and what sustainable means, right. But that is what I would say to you take the time. It is essential to your business to the people that you employ. It’s essential to the way you will recruit in the future, and is essential to how you will do business, in your community locally, nationally. And if you are global.

Achim Nowak  34:15

Final question that I asked in every podcast chat, based on what you know now, as a successful, accomplished, mature businesswoman. If you were to whisper into young Diane’s ears and give her some words of wisdom or guidance to sort of send her off on her way, what would you want her to know?

Diane Primo  34:37

Two things if you were a female out there, do not delay your childbirth because of business. Okay, that’s really important. Okay, do not there. There’s always going to be something new something going on. I will tell you I got my big promotion when I was like I was on maternity leave. I was like why are they Why are these people Calling. They were calling me to make sure I was coming back. Because the minute I came back, they may be President of Product Management and Marketing. That’s why they call it right. They want to make sure I was actually coming back, right. So do not delay it, do not that is a mistake, do what you need to do for your life and for your family. And that’s probably the biggest whisper I would give. The second one is think about your platform, and be mindful of your brand and build it. A lot of people of color. A lot of women, I think men are much better at that they’re much better of natural networking, the way they do it, where they do it, how they do it. I say this to all diverse folks, whether you be LGBTQ, or you’re, you know, a woman, you’re black, you’re Hispanic, you’re Asian, you know, you’re a veteran organization. Think about an SR. Now there’s tons of discrimination against steamers, right? Think about what brand you are building, and how to build it and build it. Do not, do not do not do that. Because you will have oftentimes you will have unique platforms in your life, that will make it easier for you to do it. So becomes more efficient. Take advantage of that, understand what you can do with that. It’s very important. I gave you two Did you ask for one?

Achim Nowak  36:23

No, I’ll take two. And then once I just appreciate your passion for purpose and brand, which is obviously a business but you’ve connected those dots so beautifully for me, and I hope for our listeners, if folks want to learn more about you and what you do your business and also other activities where where would you like to send them?

Diane Primo  36:44 You should know that I did write a book on diversity. It’s called the all report about leadership, culture and diversity and very strong lots of research in that. We also do, which I think is really important for marketers and for communications people we do a workshop, an eight hour workshop to help them develop their marketing and communication muscle around diversity. I’m also looking at a purpose book that hopefully will but when I’ve got like 18 contributors, a lot of them from the fortune 100 that should be out I don’t know three months. I keep saying three months. I gotta I have to finish like the last section I have to do.

Achim Nowak  37:21

So it’s good to finish it. Finish. Thank you so much. Joy. Oh my gosh, scheme is so much fun. Bye for now. Bye for now. Like what you heard, please go to my fourth act calm and subscribe to receive my updates on upcoming episodes. Please also subscribe to us on the platform of your choice. Rate us give us a review and let us all create some magical fourth acts together. Ciao



  1. Real Social Equity Change is Happening in Corporations - Revere Software - […] a July episode of the podcast, My Fourth Act, Achim Nowak interviewed Diane Primo, the CEO of Purpose Brand…

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